2013/08/28 - Giving An Earful

Goldenlorde · Post by **Goldenlorde** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:08 pm

Wow, I really like where Rick's art style is going! The characters are looking really good.

TarotCoyote · Post by **TarotCoyote** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:56 pm

*is suddenly yanked by ear into conversation with a confused look* Whoa...now I know how Max's 'was it all a dream' moments feel.

copper · Post by **copper** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:57 pm

So Max and Grape get really comfy while Tarot gets to vent! Poor Peanut, he knew it was a mistake as soon as he said that...

She will make cookies! Cookies make everything better! And up until the dog house, it sounds like a decent date!

Peanut's face is just perfect.

MrNeonShot · Post by **MrNeonShot** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:58 pm

Sansash wrote:When did Peanut and Spirit Dragon date?

I believe it was when Sabrina took Peanut to the frost giant fight.
She tried to kiss Peanut, but she ended up kissing Sabrina. Awkward.

CR4CK3RW0LF · Post by **CR4CK3RW0LF** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:01 pm

rickgriffin wrote:It's nice how when I depict a character as being angry, people can assume they're humorless and angry forever

yeah everyone's blowing it WAAAAY out of proportion! xD

and i love that max got a really great development strip! it was really more about him and grape than peanut and tarot, and dragon is more of a character now too! lovin it! =3

too bad peanut was the victim the entire arc though, he needs some love.. or at least a chew toy lol

Saturn381 · Post by **Saturn381** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:02 pm

CR4CK3RW0LF wrote:too bad peanut was the victim the entire arc though, he needs some love.. or at least a chew toy lol

He really does need to be cuddled right now.

Ty-Guy6 · Post by **Ty-Guy6** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:05 pm

Felphor wrote:
GarrisonSkunk wrote: Heh, Nutella would be perfect, wish I had thought of that I have a feeling if she moved into the Sandwich household Earl would insist 'My house, my rules'. After all, its implied in "Housepets Babies!" that he wouldn't have married Mrs. Sandwich if her name wasn't 'Jill'.
Welp, as long as we can decide that Nutella would be amazing, we're good! woot!

Nope, I'm going with Banana, especially since Tarot has a light, yellowish color. Also, PB&B is my favorite kind of sandwich. Ever tried it? Mmm!

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:23 pm

I don't know how they keep doing it, but I'm once again overflowing with adorableness!

Felphor · Post by **Felphor** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:33 pm

Ty-Guy6 wrote:
Felphor wrote:
GarrisonSkunk wrote: Heh, Nutella would be perfect, wish I had thought of that I have a feeling if she moved into the Sandwich household Earl would insist 'My house, my rules'. After all, its implied in "Housepets Babies!" that he wouldn't have married Mrs. Sandwich if her name wasn't 'Jill'.
Welp, as long as we can decide that Nutella would be amazing, we're good! woot!
Nope, I'm going with Banana, especially since Tarot has a light, yellowish color. Also, PB&B is my favorite kind of sandwich. Ever tried it? Mmm!

even though Banana is close aesthetically, Nutella just sounds cute for her and the color scheme isnt that far off either.
That, and have you tried a PB & Nutella sandwich? you should find that it is amazing!

copper · Post by **copper** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:42 pm

Nutella has been used in a couple of fan fics already, most notably in Valerio's fan fic for a child of Peanut Butter Sandwich...

I doubt Rick uses it to tell the truth.

Felphor · Post by **Felphor** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:49 pm

copper wrote:Nutella has been used in a couple of fan fics already, most notably in Valerio's fan fic for a child of Peanut Butter Sandwich...

I doubt Rick uses it to tell the truth.

i was completely doubting that she would get a name change. i was trying to see what would be fun if she did.
still not a bad name, tho.

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:52 pm

Well, this was probably the worst Peanut/Grape's arc I've seen so far. It would have been better to name it as “Thematic arc of questionable quality” but that name was already taken. Why I didn't liked it? The reasons are just below. But first let me tell you that I don't want this post to be taken as any kind of insult or offense to the author or to the comic. If I'm taking the trouble of saying this is because I actually care about him and his work.

Reasons: The arc was too long and totally lacked of plot.
I love long arcs but only when there's a good story behind. The arc was too random, not even seemed previously planned at all (instead I would say each strip was created five minutes before being posted). Sorry, but I couldn't figure what was the point of the whole arc. The worst thing is we've been fooled a lot of times in this arc that something big was going to happen but then nothing occurs. When this happens one time in an arc you could say it's trolling but when that happens so many times, that's just being cruel. Seriously Mr Griffin, if you want to drop a bomb just do it, don't worry about what the fans would say.

Now I will list each fault of this arc:
-What's the reason to mention the waterpark when it wasn't even going to appear? It seems it was only to make us being paranoid of Tarot's prediction three years ago about Sabrina.
-Why Grape of all the people would want to go to a waterpark? She is a CAT! She has stated numerous times that she hates water. Anyone with common sense would have thought that there had to be a hidden reason. Nothing happened.
-Grape was being selfish and interfere with Peanut's date when he never did that in any of her dates with Max (not even the ones related to Pridelands). Besides she knew that he would feel unconfortable in a double date with her and she did not care at all. You could have expected some kind of tension here but they split up. Nothing happened.
-Tarot mentioned that the one thing she wanted to discuss with Peanut was related to “The Game”. Everyone could have expected that maybe he has a role in this or perhaps she foresaw the imminent duel and wanted to share it with him (specially since there's the chance of she not getting out of this alive). Instead there was a discussion about the love triangle of these two alongside Dragon that was totally unnecessary because we already knew that the one person Peanut was dating and loves was Tarot. Besides this was entirely Tarot's fault because they should have had this conversation from the beginning. So if she did not care enough to let things clear to Dragon from the very start then she didn't love Peanut that much, because she chose to keep sharing her boyfriend over three years. And now she only brought it up because her powers were fading, proving my point further more.
-When you forced Max to have a disastrous date causing him to have that reaction I thought there was something behind. But no, he just made a fuss for the stupid reason of having a bad date. You killed him. He was supposed to be one of the most manly characters and now he has fallen between the childish ones like Peanut. Besides he was a jerk during the whole date because he kept ignoring Grape all day. Then he just made a tantrum and she forgave him. What the howl?! Seriously, I'm telling you, there's no woman who doesn't hate when a man don't listen.

Please, don't get me wrong. I love comedy and all the funny stuff and I don't dislike romance at all. I just think these things should be complementary of a good plot. First thing to do must be always focus in the plot of the arc, and then start adding jokes, romance, drama, suspence, action, adventure, etc looking for a perfect balance. When things are too random and lack of sense then it gets boring, no matter how funny and adorable the characters are.

I remind you your own comic -> https://www.housepetscomic.com/2010/05/ ... onal-they/
That's basically my point. If I have to read random stuff of random characters all the time, then there's no difference with reading the newspaper's comics (and we all know they are terrible).
Besides, if you want to make random stuff, I recomend to use other characters that haven't been explored yet like Yeltsin, Rex, Boris, Griswold, Devo, Fiddle, Keys, Steve, Jinx, etc.
About the main characters, there must be a reason of why they are called that way, and that reason is that they are supposed to be the central pieces of the story. The story is supposed to revolve around them, that's why they should be part of each big plot. Otherwise, if they keep doing only random stuff, they will not be different of an extra.

Finally, I just hope to see soon more stories rich on plots like “A sinister shadow”; “Oceans two”, “Imaginate, too!”, “Not all dogs”, “The case of the Aztec gold”, “Temple crashers”, among others.

If you feel something of what I said is offensive you can edit it. I just wanted to express my opinion. That's not a crime.

Tatsuo · Post by **Tatsuo** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:17 am

Hmm...Those are actually some rather good key points. Except didn't Diss point out that something big is gona happen this Saturday. Or was it the last one we just had? In either case, I don't think it was a terrible arc, perhaps this could be leading up to something else? But I can see what you're getting at though.

If I may I'd like be honest though about the whole grapenut max shippers thing. I'm for whatever really anymore, I do lean more to one side as some know. I can't image how some people who are Veterans on here feel after all these years, but this whole couple ordeal is getting kinda old. I'm hoping as Gren pointed out, Tarot regaining her abilities may now shed some light on all this. Tough to say if she's more worried about her powers rather then Peanut. She just might be one of those people who likes to keep things privet until whatever it is needs to come out. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens down the road *Shrugs Shoulders*

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:22 am

@Gren ~ Your opinion is fair, but I gotta point out some of the things you mentioned just to clear things out.

When you say the arc was too long, that can be a good thing and a bad thing. This arc gave us a good, long suspenseful ride, threw in alot of good comedy and character development, even if some of it didn't turn out the way everyone expected. I honestly thought Maxwell and Peanut were going to be the way you thought as well, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion since it gives a lot more room for development than if Maxwell became tough already and if Peanut was faultless.

-What's the reason to mention the waterpark when it wasn't even going to appear? It seems it was only to make us being paranoid of Tarot's prediction three years ago about Sabrina.

We still have Friday, but there is a possibility they already been to the waterpark. The only problem is they stayed away from the more noticeable parts of it. The waterpark was also used to cause a rift in the first place between Peanut and Grape.

-Why Grape of all the people would want to go to a waterpark? She is a CAT! She has stated numerous times that she hates water. Anyone with common sense would have thought that there had to be a hidden reason. Nothing happened.

Actually, she hates baths. (WHO SHE WILL EAT MUD TO AVOID) Water she's fine with.

-Grape was being selfish and interfere with Peanut's date when he never did that in any of her dates with Max (not even the ones related to Pridelands). Besides she knew that he would feel unconfortable in a double date with her and she did not care at all. You could have expected some kind of tension here but they split up. Nothing happened.

I admit this bothers me sometimes, but then I forget ~ Grape is a cat. A female cat. She's going to be nosy and not even realize it. Peanut can be sometimes, but he's moreso into the fun-loving nosiness while Grape just hates being left out of something she knows would be beneficial. For the most part, it doesn't seem to bother anyone when she starts asking and it's probably because she's a cat. and probably also because she's a girl. If Max did it, they would throw a boot at him. Poor Max. *wheeps*

-Tarot mentioned that the one thing she wanted to discuss with Peanut was related to “The Game”. Everyone could have expected that maybe he has a role in this or perhaps she foresaw the imminent duel and wanted to share it with him (specially since there's the chance of she not getting out of this alive). Instead there was a discussion about the love triangle of these two alongside Dragon that was totally unnecessary because we already knew that the one person Peanut was dating and loves was Tarot. Besides this was entirely Tarot's fault because they should have had this conversation from the beginning. So if she did not care enough to let things clear to Dragon from the very start then she didn't love Peanut that much, because she chose to keep sharing her boyfriend over three years. And now she only brought it up because her powers were fading, proving my point further more.

I agree the way things Tarot and S.Dragon done things was debatable, but it's only because it seems that the reason S.Dragon showed up after Grape left was to fill in the boots that Grape and Max left behind. However, in the end I'm actually glad she got some closure with Maxwell, of all people. To me, that's like sending Scotty the Engineer to calm down the god of love... and succeed.

-When you forced Max to have a disastrous date causing him to have that reaction I thought there was something behind. But no, he just made a fuss for the stupid reason of having a bad date. You killed him. He was supposed to be one of the most manly characters and now he has fallen between the childish ones like Peanut. Besides he was a jerk during the whole date because he kept ignoring Grape all day. Then he just made a tantrum and she forgave him. What the howl?! Seriously, I'm telling you, there's no woman who doesn't hate when a man don't listen.

Now that is just silly. I still think Max is tough, but you gotta give him more credit than that. He still spoke out towards S.Dragon about how he felt, and the guy still walked away in the end and apologized for his actions. And why can't Grape forgive Maxwell? I think it's nice she's understanding enough to realize she's overshadowing Maxwell, despite how hard he tries, so the least she can do is make sure he doesn't pull his fur out thinking Grape is going to dump him because he's not, in his opinion, meeting her standards.

If I sounded like I'm preaching, I apologize in advance.

MrNeonShot · Post by **MrNeonShot** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:25 am

Gren wrote:Well, this was probably the worst Peanut/Grape's arc I've seen so far. It would have been better to name it as “Thematic arc of questionable quality” but that name was already taken. Why I didn't liked it? The reasons are just below. But first let me tell you that I don't want this post to be taken as any kind of insult or offense to the author or to the comic. If I'm taking the trouble of saying this is because I actually care about him and his work.

Reasons: The arc was too long and totally lacked of plot.
I love long arcs but only when there's a good story behind. The arc was too random, not even seemed previously planned at all (instead I would say each strip was created five minutes before being posted). Sorry, but I couldn't figure what was the point of the whole arc. The worst thing is we've been fooled a lot of times in this arc that something big was going to happen but then nothing occurs. When this happens one time in an arc you could say it's trolling but when that happens so many times, that's just being cruel. Seriously Mr Griffin, if you want to drop a bomb just do it, don't worry about what the fans would say.

Now I will list each fault of this arc:
-What's the reason to mention the waterpark when it wasn't even going to appear? It seems it was only to make us being paranoid of Tarot's prediction three years ago about Sabrina.
-Why Grape of all the people would want to go to a waterpark? She is a CAT! She has stated numerous times that she hates water. Anyone with common sense would have thought that there had to be a hidden reason. Nothing happened.
-Grape was being selfish and interfere with Peanut's date when he never did that in any of her dates with Max (not even the ones related to Pridelands). Besides she knew that he would feel unconfortable in a double date with her and she did not care at all. You could have expected some kind of tension here but they split up. Nothing happened.
-Tarot mentioned that the one thing she wanted to discuss with Peanut was related to “The Game”. Everyone could have expected that maybe he has a role in this or perhaps she foresaw the imminent duel and wanted to share it with him (specially since there's the chance of she not getting out of this alive). Instead there was a discussion about the love triangle of these two alongside Dragon that was totally unnecessary because we already knew that the one person Peanut was dating and loves was Tarot. Besides this was entirely Tarot's fault because they should have had this conversation from the beginning. So if she did not care enough to let things clear to Dragon from the very start then she didn't love Peanut that much, because she chose to keep sharing her boyfriend over three years. And now she only brought it up because her powers were fading, proving my point further more.
-When you forced Max to have a disastrous date causing him to have that reaction I thought there was something behind. But no, he just made a fuss for the stupid reason of having a bad date. You killed him. He was supposed to be one of the most manly characters and now he has fallen between the childish ones like Peanut. Besides he was a jerk during the whole date because he kept ignoring Grape all day. Then he just made a tantrum and she forgave him. What the howl?! Seriously, I'm telling you, there's no woman who doesn't hate when a man don't listen.

Please, don't get me wrong. I love comedy and all the funny stuff and I don't dislike romance at all. I just think these things should be complementary of a good plot. First thing to do must be always focus in the plot of the arc, and then start adding jokes, romance, drama, suspence, action, adventure, etc looking for a perfect balance. When things are too random and lack of sense then it gets boring, no matter how funny and adorable the characters are.

I remind you your own comic -> https://www.housepetscomic.com/2010/05/ ... onal-they/
That's basically my point. If I have to read random stuff of random characters all the time, then there's no difference with reading the newspaper's comics (and we all know they are terrible).
Besides, if you want to make random stuff, I recomend to use other characters that haven't been explored yet like Yeltsin, Rex, Boris, Griswold, Devo, Fiddle, Keys, Steve, Jinx, etc.
About the main characters, there must be a reason of why they are called that way, and that reason is that they are supposed to be the central pieces of the story. The story is supposed to revolve around them, that's why they should be part of each big plot. Otherwise, if they keep doing only random stuff, they will not be different of an extra.

Finally, I just hope to see soon more stories rich on plots like “A sinister shadow”; “Oceans two”, “Imaginate, too!”, “Not all dogs”, “The case of the Aztec gold”, “Temple crashers”, among others.

If you feel something of what I said is offensive you can edit it. I just wanted to express my opinion. That's not a crime.

This to me explains my feelings about the arc. I suggest recovering with a story about Max's past.
I do think the relationship between Peanut and Tarot is getting old. Plus, just because Max cries, he's forgiven?

Mod Edit: We ask that you do not denote romantic pairings with mathematical symbols (+, /, or x) due to negative connotations.

Post by **Dissension** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:54 am

This arc was always intended to be character-driven. To address some of the enumerated complaints:

Tarot never said the waterpark was a destination. That was an assumption of Grape's and led to her and Max splitting off. Their half of the adventure went downhill from there.
Grape doesn't dislike water, as shown by her participation in The Great Water Balloon War
The issue with Dragon and Tarot fighting over Peanut's affection is very relevant to the Universes & Unrealities match. The strain was having an impact on Tarot's effectiveness as an avatar and Sabrina, for all her awesomeness, probably isn't quite sufficiently well-trained to replace the pomeranian. If Pete obtained a powerful avatar when Dragon wasn't ready to match him, it'd be game over pretty quickly.
Maxwell's never been one of the most manly characters. He got run down by a pack of dogs in his first appearance. That's not a particularly auspicious start to one's comic-world existence. Regarding the allegation Maxwell's outburst was unwarranted, he has serious confidence issues. Max lost Sabrina, he lost the haunted house bet to Marvin, his dad's locked him out of the house more than once, and he has reason to think Grape's not that into him. Max worries a lot about how others percieve him (which is seen even as far back as the Housepets Babies! arc, when he ends up being rescued by Grape and feels "small and inadequate") and in the strips leading up to him mouthing off to the Spirit Dragon, his attempts to impress Grape all backfired. That's a lot of pain and I can tell you from experience it sometimes comes out all at once. In the most recent strip, Max didn't say he screwed up their date, he said "all I ever do is screw up." That's a pretty big statement and kind of explains a few things about his character. I know what it feels like to think nothing you do is ever good enough; that you're never good enough and nothing you do can change that. If you don't know how that feels, you're very fortunate and I'm a little envious.

Stuff. · Post by **Stuff.** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:04 am

Huh, the reactions to this arc seem a little mixed.

Suppose I'll say that while I wasn't into it at first, eventually it kind of found its groove, and I thought the characterization made it work out pretty well. I liked how it cut between the two dates to show that one was going more or less smoothly and the other went...well, you know. I felt it was more about how the characters played off each other more than anything, rather than expanding the plot, which I'm okay with. Not to mention that it had a number of awesome bits. Main thing I would still complain about is that, while I liked the idea behind Max's development, I felt like his rant on Dragon was a bit...forced. Like, I know that it was supposed to be really melodramatic, but I couldn't help but think it kinda came out just a little bit out of left field. Not to say that it didn't make sense, but...I don't know, I thought that scene could have been executed a bit better.

Like I've mentioned before, I was a bit bored by The King and I because it felt like its plot lingered too much on insignificant things just for some laughs, but looking back, part of the problem was that the characterization itself didn't get very interesting for a long time. Gallifrax was just mostly about the characters interacting to begin with and didn't set up anything big until it started to close, so I ended up quite enjoying it (despite having been a butt about it at first).

GarrisonSkunk · Post by **GarrisonSkunk** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:10 am

Dissension wrote:We don't see everything that happens in the characters' lives. They dated while the story was focused on something else.

Since Peanut didn't find it odd that humans seemed to understand them, it would seem logical to assume that Dragon always came along, being all the people they'd interact with on their previous visits, such as the waterpark workers. Dragon might consider those dates even if Peanut didn't know it was her selling him a ticket, or hotdog etc.

rickgriffin wrote:It's nice how when I depict a character as being angry, people can assume they're humorless and angry forever

I looked through the 70 something strips featuring Tarot, and outside of the Imaginate arcs, she doesn't really seem to express much of a sense of humor. It is interesting to note that one reader noted in the comments of the strip with her very first appearance, 'Pomeranian spitz are known for their short temper and their possessiveness'. She does seem to be showing both in the last panel.

Saturn381 wrote:
Argent wrote:Just wait until she starts bringing up things he said three years ago and has completely forgotten.
What did he say I forgot too.

While he and Grape were in the closet Peanut admitted "Okay maybe she's a little strange, but everyone has their quirks, right?"

Argent wrote:It happened offscreen, like the incident with the chicken.

what chicken?

MrNeonShot wrote:-What's the reason to mention the waterpark when it wasn't even going to appear? It seems it was only to make us being paranoid of Tarot's prediction three years ago about Sabrina.

I thought Grape and Max had hit the waterpark before going to the fish market next door. The structure to the left of the panel with them in 'To the market, to the market' looked waterparky I thought, plus Grape's comment that it was 'in the same place' implied that.

MrNeonShot wrote:-Why Grape of all the people would want to go to a waterpark? She is a CAT! She has stated numerous times that she hates water. Anyone with common sense would have thought that there had to be a hidden reason. Nothing happened.

It's been established that despite complaining about them, Grape likes wet rides. https://www.housepetscomic.com/2010/08/ ... verywhere/

I just wish there had been a little more interaction between Max and Dragon. Why bother bringing him to her room only to IWOAD...OWI him away two panels later? It feels like Rick just noticed the time and held up a cardboard sign 'Everybody gets back together. THE END' I'm just hoping Rick is just sowing a seed and will explore it later, the way he did way back when he just had Fox mention that it was the second time he had been dognapped, and then followed up later.

Macsen · Post by **Macsen** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:48 am

Tarot is totally playing with Peanut right now. She caught the bouquet for a reason.

:3

Post by **Obbl** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:23 am

Everyone hating on Tarot and Dragon really needs to stop.
Yes, we are all aware that the way the have handled this situation was not the best way to do things. Yes, they should have been more upfront with him from the beginning. Yes, putting him on the spot right there was cruel. We are aware of this. More importantly, Rick is aware of this. Rick writes characters that are true to life, and true to life characters make mistakes. Sometimes they make really big mistakes. Sometimes they make huge mistakes which in hindsight seem really obvious. If you've never made those kind of mistakes, congratulations. Otherwise, please stop complaining that Rick writes characters that have real depth and real feeling.

As for Max, it is hard to take his rant when we've seen so little of his screw-ups in the past perhaps. Still, it should be fairly obvious from what he said (and the past actions we have seen) that he has some deep emotional issues that this date just brought to a head. This is also very real. People do it all the time. If this has never happened to you or someone you love, congratulations. Otherwise, please stop complaining that Rick writes characters that have real depth and real feeling.

Post by **Render** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:32 am

Obbl wrote:Everyone hating on Tarot and Dragon really needs to stop.
Yes, we are all aware that the way the have handled this situation was not the best way to do things. Yes, they should have been more upfront with him from the beginning. Yes, putting him on the spot right there was cruel. We are aware of this. More importantly, Rick is aware of this. Rick writes characters that are true to life, and true to life characters make mistakes. Sometimes they make really big mistakes. Sometimes they make huge mistakes which in hindsight seem really obvious. If you've never made those kind of mistakes, congratulations. Otherwise, please stop complaining that Rick writes characters that have real depth and real feeling.

Oh yes!

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:42 am

@Diss ~ I just hope someday Maxwell grows out of his self-esteem issues. A character that starts building self-esteem issues is sad to see, but it is very heartwarming to see them break out of it, which I'm sure Maxwell can. =3

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:36 pm

IceKitsune wrote:I wonder if we getting an Epilogue to this arc as its kind of rare for arcs to not end on a Friday.

I think that only happens at every year end.

GameCobra wrote:When you say the arc was too long, that can be a good thing and a bad thing. This arc gave us a good, long suspenseful ride, threw in alot of good comedy and character development, even if some of it didn't turn out the way everyone expected.

Yes, it had suspense but since nothing really important has happened it seemed like mocking at us the readers.
Character development? Yes, and nothing is more accurate than what I said before. Grape was selfish and forgave too easy. Maxwell was a jerk and a crybaby. Peanut was far too oblivious in a situation that demands seriousness. Tarot did not seemed to love him that much if her only concern was to not lose her powers (specially since she had no much problem to share her boyfriend with Dragon over more than three years till now).

GameCobra wrote: And why can't Grape forgive Maxwell? I think it's nice she's understanding enough to realize she's overshadowing Maxwell, despite how hard he tries, so the least she can do is make sure he doesn't pull his fur out thinking Grape is going to dump him because he's not, in his opinion, meeting her standards.

I'm not saying she can't forgive him (if actually was me who said in the previous strips that I would really get mad if they break up for a single bad date), what I'm pointing is that Grape just forgot how he behaved during the whole date for that tantrum he made at the end.

Dissension wrote:
Tarot never said the waterpark was a destination. That was an assumption of Grape's and led to her and Max splitting off. Their half of the adventure went downhill from there.

Yes, but why a waterpark? What was the need to specify exactly that? Couldn't it be a normal theme park? Or a balloon ride? Or go-karts? You got my point? That was with the sole purpose to maintain the audience expectant about Tarot's prediction.

Dissension wrote:[*]Grape doesn't dislike water, as shown by her participation in The Great Water Balloon War

It was that or being shot by a flamethrower. That was just for the fun of the arc. Come on, every cat of the neighborhood were participating on this.

Dissension wrote:[*]The issue with Dragon and Tarot fighting over Peanut's affection is very relevant to the Universes & Unrealities match. The strain was having an impact on Tarot's effectiveness as an avatar and Sabrina, for all her awesomeness, probably isn't quite sufficiently well-trained to replace the pomeranian. If Pete obtained a powerful avatar when Dragon wasn't ready to match him, it'd be game over pretty quickly.

I've got that, but what I am saying is they should have discussed this a lot earlier.

Dissension wrote:[*]Maxwell's never been one of the most manly characters. He got run down by a pack of dogs in his first appearance. That's not a particularly auspicious start to one's comic-world existence. Regarding the allegation Maxwell's outburst was unwarranted, he has serious confidence issues. Max lost Sabrina, he lost the haunted house bet to Marvin, his dad's locked him out of the house more than once, and he has reason to think Grape's not that into him. Max worries a lot about how others percieve him (which is seen even as far back as the Housepets Babies! arc, when he ends up being rescued by Grape and feels "small and inadequate") and in the strips leading up to him mouthing off to the Spirit Dragon, his attempts to impress Grape all backfired. That's a lot of pain and I can tell you from experience it sometimes comes out all at once. In the most recent strip, Max didn't say he screwed up their date, he said "all I ever do is screw up." That's a pretty big statement and kind of explains a few things about his character. I know what it feels like to think nothing you do is ever good enough; that you're never good enough and nothing you do can change that. If you don't know how that feels, you're very fortunate and I'm a little envious.[/list]

Why you say that? I don't know why people think he fails at everything he does. If I remember correctly, The Yarn Ball was a total success, the same with his date with Grape in “n-ple date”, even when his dad locked him out of the house, he still got a happy ending. His party in “One cat's treasure” was a success too when he decided to invite ferals. Even his plan against the police dogs in “The great water balloon war” worked out. Also his attempt to convince the petstore clerk was rather effective.
Hence that's why I'm saying he overreacted and looked totally like a crying child.

Stuff. wrote:Like I've mentioned before, I was a bit bored by The King and I because it felt like its plot lingered too much on insignificant things just for some laughs, but looking back, part of the problem was that the characterization itself didn't get very interesting for a long time.

We share the same opinion about this.

Obbl wrote:Everyone hating on Tarot and Dragon really needs to stop.
Yes, we are all aware that the way the have handled this situation was not the best way to do things. Yes, they should have been more upfront with him from the beginning. Yes, putting him on the spot right there was cruel. We are aware of this. More importantly, Rick is aware of this. Rick writes characters that are true to life, and true to life characters make mistakes. Sometimes they make really big mistakes. Sometimes they make huge mistakes which in hindsight seem really obvious. If you've never made those kind of mistakes, congratulations. Otherwise, please stop complaining that Rick writes characters that have real depth and real feeling.

I really doubt anyone hates Tarot and Dragon. However you can't prevent us from being upset of their attitude and their actions. If I don't like it, I don't like it, that's it. You can't expect people to be understanding at everything, specially with the big mistakes you emphasizes. If I kill a child by accident I doubt there would be much people who would be compassionate with me (even when it just an accident).

Post by **Obbl** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:10 pm

Gren, if that's really how you feel about the characters, then you are completely missing who they are. Really. If you are willing to assume that everyone has a reason for acting the way they do, you find that people make a lot more sense. Everyone acted in reasonable ways this arc (Dragon's springing of the choice on Peanut being the only exception, but love blinds people), and if you were in their position, you would feel similarly (even if you didn't respond in exactly the same way). Deciding that is really the first step to understanding who Rick is writing these characters to be.

There's also a difference between disliking the choices people make (and believing them to be wrong) and disliking the person. There's a lot of character hating (or disliking) going on because people are generalizing good guy vs bad guy way too much. There really aren't any villains in this story (except Thomas and Celia). Everyone is trying to do what they think is the right thing while still achieving their goals, same as anyone else. Maybe it's not you, but I get very tired of seeing reactions like, "So-and-so made a poor decision that hurt someone or did something mean and petty this one time or got angry over something I don't think is justifiable. They are therefore a horrible person and I dislike them."

And if you killed a child on accident then, yes, I would feel compassionate, because I know that you would be hurting more than anyone else.

MrNeonShot · Post by **MrNeonShot** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:25 pm

Yeah, but there's also the fact that Tarot just brought up moving in together.
I'm pretty sure Peanut doesn't want to leave his house, and I'm not sure how they're parents are going to react to Tarot suddenly showing up, should this actually happen.
And then if this doesn't happen at all, what was the point?
I do think the end could've been thought out more.

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:46 pm

Obbl wrote:

Since when this comics has turned so complicated? I mean, you analyzes the characters as if you were Sigmund Freud. Besides you contradict yourself because first you said “If you are willing to assume that everyone has a reason for acting the way they do ...” and then you said “Everyone acted in reasonable ways...”, so what's your point? They were reasonable or unreasonable?
Following that logic, even if I consider them as real people who sometimes contradict themselves, that is not an excuse to make me sympathizes with them if they do something I do not approve. And if they go against my values and principles every time they show up there's no way I could like them. That's why there are persons who don't like characters like Pete, and there are others who don't like characters like Peanut. Everyone have their own likes and preferences as well as they have their own values and principles and all of these depends of their personalities and the way they were raised. An example of this is that you consider Celia and Thomas as villians when I think they are just two greedy people who were tricked and just want their fair share of the inheritance. As you has stated, “everyone is trying to do what they think is the right thing while still achieving their goals” but that doesn't mean I should like what they do to achieve that (and that includes the author himself as any other real people).

(Dragon's springing of the choice on Peanut being the only exception, but love blinds people)

Yes, Dragon wasn't thinking clear because she was blinded by love, but Tarot is a different story. There's nothing that justify Tarot's behavior, that's why I'm saying she didn't love Peanut that much.

and if you were in their position, you would feel similarly (even if you didn't respond in exactly the same way).

You should not assume how I would behave or feel in a similar situation since you don't know me enough, but I can tell you I would never act the same way as anyone of them did in this chapter. Besides I don't know why we end discussing this, the characters are just the background of my complaint. My main concern was the lack of plot. I couldn't care less about characters' romance life but at least I want a bit of story at the background (and if it's possible, it would be great if we could track a plot-line between each arc).

And if you killed a child on accident then, yes, I would feel compassionate, because I know that you would be hurting more than anyone else.

You say that since you have never been in a situation like this. Besides, I'm pretty sure you would not think that way if the alleged child were a friend or a relative of yours. I think we are getting too creepy about this so it's better I cut it off.

Gamewolf67 · Post by **Gamewolf67** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:45 pm

copper wrote:So Max and Grape get really comfy while Tarot gets to vent! Poor Peanut, he knew it was a mistake as soon as he said that...

She will make cookies! Cookies make everything better! And up until the dog house, it sounds like a decent date!

Peanut's face is just perfect.

Make sure it's not chocolate. Peanut Butter is good, though.

Saturn381 · Post by **Saturn381** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:04 pm

Gamewolf67 wrote:
copper wrote:So Max and Grape get really comfy while Tarot gets to vent! Poor Peanut, he knew it was a mistake as soon as he said that...

She will make cookies! Cookies make everything better! And up until the dog house, it sounds like a decent date!

Peanut's face is just perfect.
Make sure it's not chocolate. Peanut Butter is good, though.

Unless it's dog-safe chocolate.

Post by **Obbl** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:36 pm

I just get upset when people dislike a character because, despite trying to do the best they can, they make mistakes and bad things come of it. Because that character is me. I don't like people saying that Max's tirade is unrealistic, because that means I'm unrealistic. I don't like Thomas and Celia, because they are not trying to "do the right thing". They don't care how their goals get accomplished. Tarot doesn't do the things she does out of malicious intent.

"She leaves Peanut alone in her stall without instructions on what not to do."
This is a common oversight. You overestimate your underling's ability to handle all situations, or you figure nothing too ridiculous will come up. This is a display of trust in Peanut that ends up leading to a mistake, she gets upset because it's a very difficult situation, but then she forgives Peanut. All very normal and should easily be forgivable.

"She refuses to save King from Duchess but then goes screaming to him when Pete leads her to believe that he's found an advantage in the game."
She explained why she didn't help him. I've been there before. It's snap decision time, and someone's come to you with a grey area policy question. You have 30 seconds to answer. Go! Everyone outside can see the correct answer, but inside your mind, it's a whirlwind of questions and doubt. This one is more clearly a poor decision, but if you can't understand her decision at all, you've never been there. Then later going to warn King when she fairly certain Pete's about to do something King isn't going to like? That sounds like concern to me.

"She lets Peanut go on thinking Dragon is another form."
I can go step by step through this decision process if you want. Trust me it's also extremely common. These you have to learn to forgive. It wasn't done with intent to manipulate or deceive. Every decision in this chain was made with Peanut in mind until the end when Dragon put him on the spot. That was selfishness. It starts out trying not to overwhelm him, then comes from the uncertainty of how to handle the situation they put themselves in by not being honest up front. Sure, the correct answer is: just tell him. But if you don't understand the anxiety that comes from that situation, you're lucky. Plus, they apparently did try to tell him, but he wasn't paying attention. So then what do you do? Again, correct answer is: make him pay attention. Again, people don't always make the correct decision.

My point is: if good intent leads to mistakes, and people can't forgive them for it... That bothers me. Sure it doesn't absolve them from doing the wrong thing. But to dislike them?

And Xane, these are the kinds of comments I'm talking about: "that's why I'm saying [Tarot] didn't love Peanut that much." This is people letting their dislike of a character's actions color their beliefs about the character.
And you're right. People who feel strong negative emotion means an author's doing a good job. I just feel that it's misplaced. I feel like it comes from misunderstanding the character, and that's what bothers me about it.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:43 pm

I'm still not sure that Tarot actually loves Peanut. She was originally Dragon's intermediary, introduced for game reasons and kept as Peanut's boyfriend because Dragon was doing the whole Cyrano de Bergerac thing. She started off playing the role of Peanut's girlfriend and I can't tell if she fell in love with the dog or the role.

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:46 pm

Obbl wrote:

So are you saying that as long as they have good intentions no one can dislike them? Well then, Pete have good intentions (despite of the means he uses to achive them) and I don't see him having a large fandom. Grape was selfish this time, then why I should be sympathetic with her? I'm not saying I hate or dislike her, but if she continues doing things that I don't approve then I will like her less and less. That's how it works. You are asking me to forgive and forget every actions they do and I can't do that.

Sorry Obbl, but you are too optimistic and acquiescent, and ordinary people can't see the bright side of everything as you do.

Obbl wrote:And Xane, these are the kinds of comments I'm talking about: "that's why I'm saying [Tarot] didn't love Peanut that much." This is people letting their dislike of a character's actions color their beliefs about the character.

Tarot is the only responsable about this mess because she is Peanut's girlfriend and not Spirit Dragon. Tarot knew about how Dragon feels toward her boyfriend and she didn't care to clarify the situation to Peanut but instead she just avoid it and chose to share Peanut till now. You said she tried but it seems she didn't try enough.
Now let me tell you this: When a woman see that another one is interested in the guy she loves she tends to be insecure, possessive and competitive, and there's no way she leave any advantage to her rival. She would never stop until you say to her that she is the only one that you love. Of course it's not my intention generalize with women, but I'm pretty sure that no one is that stupid to let other steal their boyfriends (and Tarot didn't care to share it. What I am supposed to think about that?).

Mod Edit: You may not be rude to other members.

Post by **Dissension** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:48 pm

Gren wrote:Since when this comics has turned so complicated? I mean, you analyzes the characters as if you were Sigmund Freud. Besides you contradict yourself because first you said “If you are willing to assume that everyone has a reason for acting the way they do ...” and then you said “Everyone acted in reasonable ways...”, so what's your point? They were reasonable or unreasonable?

Let's not get personal, please.

To address your point here, Obbl didn't contradict himself. If we assume everyone has a reason for acting as they do, we can also assume they're acting reasonably.

Gren wrote:
Dissension wrote:[*]Maxwell's never been one of the most manly characters. He got run down by a pack of dogs in his first appearance. That's not a particularly auspicious start to one's comic-world existence. Regarding the allegation Maxwell's outburst was unwarranted, he has serious confidence issues. Max lost Sabrina, he lost the haunted house bet to Marvin, his dad's locked him out of the house more than once, and he has reason to think Grape's not that into him. Max worries a lot about how others percieve him (which is seen even as far back as the Housepets Babies! arc, when he ends up being rescued by Grape and feels "small and inadequate") and in the strips leading up to him mouthing off to the Spirit Dragon, his attempts to impress Grape all backfired. That's a lot of pain and I can tell you from experience it sometimes comes out all at once. In the most recent strip, Max didn't say he screwed up their date, he said "all I ever do is screw up." That's a pretty big statement and kind of explains a few things about his character. I know what it feels like to think nothing you do is ever good enough; that you're never good enough and nothing you do can change that. If you don't know how that feels, you're very fortunate and I'm a little envious.[/list]
Why you say that? I don't know why people think he fails at everything he does. If I remember correctly, The Yarn Ball was a total success, the same with his date with Grape in “n-ple date”, even when his dad locked him out of the house, he still got a happy ending. His party in “One cat's treasure” was a success too when he decided to invite ferals. Even his plan against the police dogs in “The great water balloon war” worked out. Also his attempt to convince the petstore clerk was rather effective.
Hence that's why I'm saying he overreacted and looked totally like a crying child.

You may not think Maxwell is a loser, but he certainly seems to feel otherwise.

Saturn381 · Post by **Saturn381** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:53 pm

I think maybe we should move on before things get out o hand.

Felphor · Post by **Felphor** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:55 pm

I can understand a persons "hatred" to a specific character from these types of mistakes, of course, they are only doing what we would do in those types of situations, but, they aren't exactly like us. People expect that, due to them being a different species, they should not have certain human thought processes, but they aren't exactly animals either. Since, in this comic, they are mostly bipedal speaking animals, they are now on "level ground" with humans in the respect that they can communicate and feel complex emotion. Due to this, they would probably do what a young child would do, they would learn certain niches and thought processes from us to eventually "relate" to us. So, in entirety, it is reasonable for them to do what we do in situations like this.

Peanut, being semi-oblivious, tends not to think before he talks(ex: the normal jab toward Tarot), and as a result, makes a situation awkward, undesirable, or just plain funny.

Tarot has quite a bit of things going for her. she tends to place things in order of most important. This reason alone can give us reason as to why she cares more about the game that Dragon is currently in, because well, it is a giant game that a couple of teenage entities are playing that could potentially screw up that universe(ex: King wasn't always a dog). That, I think, is kinda more important than a date that you could make up later, or quite a list of things. She almost always tends to place peanut second on her list of priorities. Even though she probably would have never met him without Dragon, she is deeply in love with him, which explains why she always takes Peanut on inter-dimensional dates. She also, when ticked off, tends to become a dominant girlfriend, where she starts calling the shots, but even then, she still shows her love toward Peanut, just disguised under her temporary anger(ex: the last panel of this arc). By saying "We'll see about that!", she was most likely hinting to her desire to be closer with Peanut, in other words, move in.

Grape is the kind of cat that tends to be selfish when it comes to Peanut and Tarot's dates, but then again, who wouldn't want to go to another dimension? Besides that, she tends to be your basic girl who just likes to hang out and do a bunch of crazy-fun things, and nap.

As many of you have stated before, Maxwell does "screw up" quite a bit, but, so do many other people. He is your basic cat whose only real goal in life is to be with the person he loves, and have some fun on the side. This arc very much showed us that he is compassionate and very loving of Grape.

In all, this arc was definitely not a bad one, in my opinion. It had quite a bit of character development and was just kinda meant for fun(as far as I can see). When i wrote the first paragraph, it, no matter how i revised it, sounded like I was degrading them. I was in no way trying to degrade these characters because they are all awesome!

Note: These are just my opinions on the characters and my justification on why they did what they did. Please don't hurt me =(

Saturn381 wrote:I think maybe we should move on before things get out o hand.

so, wanna talk about cookies?

Please do not double post. We do have an edit button you can utilize at any time.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:17 pm

Gren wrote: Tarot is the only responsable about this mess because she is Peanut's girlfriend and not Spirit Dragon.

But she's only Peanut's girlfriend because Spirit Dragon asked her to be.

Felphor · Post by **Felphor** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:22 pm

Argent wrote:
Gren wrote: Tarot is the only responsable about this mess because she is Peanut's girlfriend and not Spirit Dragon.
But she's only Peanut's girlfriend because Spirit Dragon asked her to be.

That may be true, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't genuinely love him now.

Post by **D-Rock** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:11 pm

Felphor wrote:
Argent wrote:
Gren wrote: Tarot is the only responsable about this mess because she is Peanut's girlfriend and not Spirit Dragon.
But she's only Peanut's girlfriend because Spirit Dragon asked her to be.
That may be true, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't genuinely love him now.

Read a book like that. Guy was supposed to steal some spiritual artifact from a woman for his boss, but they ended up getting married and having a child. The guy left his boss to keep his family safe. Wish I could remember what it was called.

Felphor · Post by **Felphor** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:36 pm

D-Rock wrote:Read a book like that. Guy was supposed to steal some spiritual artifact from a woman for his boss, but they ended up getting married and having a child. The guy left his boss to keep his family safe. Wish I could remember what it was called.

Sounds familiar...

Post by **D-Rock** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:53 pm

Felphor wrote:
D-Rock wrote:Read a book like that. Guy was supposed to steal some spiritual artifact from a woman for his boss, but they ended up getting married and having a child. The guy left his boss to keep his family safe. Wish I could remember what it was called.
Sounds familiar...

It was a graphic novel/comic. Had to do with the original spirits of New York keeping said artifact hidden, while a specific lineage was supposed to find and return it to the spirits every year in return for letting humans live there, and what the artifact looked like changed with the times. Ringing any bells? Because I really wish I could remember it.

copper · Post by **copper** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:00 pm

I only have one thing to add to this mess...

Why is the prediction about Sabrina coming up? She never once appeared in this arc, was never mentioned in this arc, and it was not hinted at. Is this going to come up every time any character is near water from now on? Just because they are going to a water park means nothing.

Also, Grape does not mind water rides.