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2014/05/12 - She Loves Me 
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Interesting thought...if Bailey has taken King's place, does the boon that was initially intended for King pass to Bailey? Maybe it will be up to her to wish her husband back to being a dog.

Also, I've seen a few people suggesting that King (turned back into Joel) could do a lot of good now that he'd be human again, like make amends for what he did or serve as the public face of Human/Animal equality...is that really what King/Joel would really want? Sure, he might feel good for a short while, making a difference, but the life as a dog he's come to love would be gone forever. He'd be living his life as a symbol of freedom and acceptance, but he'd have neither of those two qualities for himself; there'd forever be a barrier between himself and his wife, his best friend, and a life that, quite frankly, showed King how to smile again. I find the possibility of him losing his dog form permanently to be quite disturbing. Here's hoping that after the duel, King returns to the canine side. :)


Tue May 13, 2014 5:55 am
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Lucid_Dragon wrote:
Interesting thought...if Bailey has taken King's place, does the boon that was initially intended for King pass to Bailey? Maybe it will be up to her to wish her husband back to being a dog.

Also, I see a few people suggesting that King (turned back into Joel) could do a lot of good now that he'd be human again, like make amends for what he did or serve as the public face of Human/Animal equality...is that really what King/Joel would really want? Sure, he might feel good for a short while, making a difference, but the life as a dog he's come to love would be gone forever. He'd be living his life as a symbol of freedom and acceptance, but he'd have neither of those two qualities for himself; there'd forever be a barrier between himself and his wife, his best friend, and a life that, quite frankly, showed King how to smile again. I find the possibility of him losing his dog form permanently to be quite disturbing. Here's hoping that after the duel, King returns to the canine side. :)

Hm, I can't honestly see King reverting into Joel. he's not interested in becoming a symbol. He has come to love this life, he has learnt the lesson that Pete wanted (at least in the grif's words) to teach him. If anything, reverting King into Joel would destroy everything King as built for himself and around himself. And if King wanted to do his part to save the world, he may accept to work for the Milton foundation (at least, Snakeene's goal IS equality for animals, despite his means).
No, Joel is a burned bridge. The most audacious development I see is King confessing the truth to Fox as well and prove it with a temporary transformation, but that's all.

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Tue May 13, 2014 6:02 am
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
diss wrote:
It's more of a "God Voice," really; Dragon and Kitsune both have them, as does Lord Bahamut.
Yes, but his is black.

Ty-Guy6 wrote:
My first response was... it doesn't make sense! Why is Bailey being so crazy and impulsive, [...]
It's kind of her schtick, after all.

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Tue May 13, 2014 6:15 am
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Lucid_Dragon wrote:
Interesting thought...if Bailey has taken King's place, does the boon that was initially intended for King pass to Bailey? Maybe it will be up to her to wish her husband back to being a dog.

Also, I've seen a few people suggesting that King (turned back into Joel) could do a lot of good now that he'd be human again, like make amends for what he did or serve as the public face of Human/Animal equality...is that really what King/Joel would really want? Sure, he might feel good for a short while, making a difference, but the life as a dog he's come to love would be gone forever. He'd be living his life as a symbol of freedom and acceptance, but he'd have neither of those two qualities for himself; there'd forever be a barrier between himself and his wife, his best friend, and a life that, quite frankly, showed King how to smile again. I find the possibility of him losing his dog form permanently to be quite disturbing. Here's hoping that after the duel, King returns to the canine side. :)

Actually, I don't think that King is so attached to his dog form as much as you say. As we saw repeatedly, even though he now take things more lightly he hasn't stopped thinking like a human, and misses having long legs.
He wants to stay as a dog because he's happy now. But he is not happy because of his body but because he's not alone anymore. He has friends and a wife now but if he somehow manages to keep them all I don't see why he would have a problem to be human again. I'm sure it would be much more meaningful if Fox and everyone forgives him as a human than as dog for the things he did in his human shape. If they do that then I can't see why they can't still be friends. Isn't the dog the man's best friend?
And about Bailey, well, if King was turned into a dog on a whim of a deity then I can't see why Bailey can't be turned into human once the duel is over. In Bailey's words, when she said she loves him she didn't said it lightly. Most likely she doesn't care much the shape of her body as long as she is with the love of her life. Perhaps now that they're married their souls are linked and so they'll assimilate the shape of the loved one (kinda like Shrek).

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Tue May 13, 2014 11:52 am
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
My goodness, I walk away for 24 hours and the comments section explodes. Let's see here:

Gren wrote:
Darastrixen wrote:
With regards to Baily being an avatar, as I have said previously, just because Pete groomed King to be a Dark Paladin, that doesn't mean there aren't other classes that he could take advantage of. For instance, I would not be surprised if he transformed Baily into a class powered by love ("devotion"). She would be quite powerful in this regard, considering her as-close-as-you-can-reasonably-get-to-unconditional love for King.

Yeah, how convenient. If that were true then why he stopped aiming for Grape? Wasn't "love" the reason why he couldn't get her as his avatar to begin with? Perhaps her love for Maxwell, Peanut, Jata and who the howl cares is not strong enough?

valerio wrote:
...I think that at this point a nice FACE! from King to Keene Milton is in order.
It becomes clear that the filthy ferret accepted to help King's wedding so that they could be together...and so that Keene's new 'partner in business' could get Bailey. And it would be just like Keene, since he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice Sabrina's happiness for 'the greater good'.
Man, that ferret is more human at hear than King was when he was Joel!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

So you're saying humans are inherently evil. You must really hate yourself. :?
Keene is not doing anything for Pete. He just has his own agenda and will do whatever it takes to bring to fruition the dream of his father. He's not evil, just a businessman. 8-)


In regards to the first point: I don't think Grape and Baily can be truly compared in this sense. I don't want to accidentally spark any emotion here, but Grape and Max don't exactly have the same kind of relationship as do Baily and King. If you think waaaay back to when Max and Grape first got together, the only reason they started as an official couple in the first place was because Max happened to be in exactly the right place at the right time wearing his most pathetic-looking face. Since then, although it's clear that Grape still likes him, it's still a work in progress. To use her own words: "Maxie has been growing on me..." Max/Grape fight and squabble (albeit in an adorable way), and Grape essentially forgot about Max in a heartbeat the moment Jata set foot in town.

On the flip side, Baily/King are already married, and despite some flaws, it's clear that they are very much in love. It's to the point where Baily is willing to throw herself into a crazy, completely unknown hardship with an obviously sadistic boss just so she can stay together with King. Again, while trying to be delicate, I feel that this is something that distinguishes the hypothetical usefulness of Baily over Grape. To my mind, Grape would try hitting it with a broom first and asking questions later. Baily restrains herself from doing so because she doesn't want to risk losing King in the crossfire. Admittedly, this is opinionated, but I feel the comic supports the idea.

Regarding point the second: It is entirely possible that Pete "settled" for Baily specifically because it allowed him to partner with Kene. In return, with the power of money, a mortal does for Pete what several centuries of supernatural power could not. Think of what kind of advantage that gives Pete in the game? Tarot has Sabrina, and perhaps through her, Fido and the K9s, as potential allies. But by bringing Kene into the fold? Billions upon billions of dollars, a legal team, ownership rights to the wolves, King(?), Baily(??), and control over most of Babylon Gardens; if that's not enough to make a powergamer go mad with desire, I frankly don't know what is.

Everything about the Baily/King wedding, including the Feraga marriage fiasco, was orchestrated by Kene with the intention of fulfilling *his* (not Pete's) goals of animal rights. The two, however, just so happen to coincide very nicely, and as long as it continues that way, they have a powerful business relation. It seems clear from the end of the Trail in Heaven that Pete had no interest in Baily whatsoever until he learned about the relationship between her and King, and then, circumstantially, Pete's greatest mortal ally takes major steps out of his way to make sure the two end up together?

To recap, Baily was eligible to appear in Babylon Gardens due to somewhat suspicious circumstances; her owners suddenly found a new place that just happens not to accept dogs. Why did they suddenly want to move? Where did the money come from? Perhaps a coincidence...However, she then appears in Babylon Gardens, where she joins King under the Wolves' roof. The Wolves' licenses are held by the ferrets, and the house is owned by the ferrets. They get married on the ferrets' estate under aggressive protection of the ferrets' legal team. It's entirely possible that Kene would have done something like this without being influenced, it does fit his goals, but the timing is...uncanny.


Tue May 13, 2014 12:31 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Notice that at no point does anyone in this arc read the contract. There are going to be parts in there that screw Bailey over. Likely considering the loss of the red string in the banner she might have to actually give up her relationship with King while she is Petes Avatar. (unless there was an alternate explanation for that and I missed it.) Even if that isn't the case I'm sure there are clauses in there that no one will like besides Pete.

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Tue May 13, 2014 12:36 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Gren wrote:
Actually, I don't think that King is so attached to his dog form as much as you say. As we saw repeatedly, even though he now take things more lightly he hasn't stopped thinking like a human, and misses having long legs.
He wants to stay as a dog because he's happy now. But he is not happy because of his body but because he's not alone anymore. He has friends and a wife now but if he somehow manages to keep them all I don't see why he would have a problem to be human again. I'm sure it would be much more meaningful if Fox and everyone forgives him as a human than as dog for the things he did in his human shape. If they do that then I can't see why they can't still be friends. Isn't the dog the man's best friend?
And about Bailey, well, if King was turned into a dog on a whim of a deity then I can't see why Bailey can't be turned into human once the duel is over. In Bailey's words, when she said she loves him she didn't said it lightly. Most likely she doesn't care much the shape of her body as long as she is with the love of her life. Perhaps now that they're married their souls are linked and so they'll assimilate the shape of the loved one (kinda like Shrek).
[/quote]
With due respect, you seem to miss the point.
King surely misses being a human, but he has adapted. And if that, at first, was because he had started with no choice at all, then, with time, being a dog made him someone better. he found a LIFE, he built something new and beautiful (although plagued by the likes of Bino and Petey). And even if you were right about him not wanting to be alone, think again: just a step before the altar, just a step before engaging for the life with a DOG, he had been offered, literally, the FREE 'out-of-jail' ticket! Pete told him clearly that King would cease to exist within one year. he only had to wait and voilà! Free ride home without even having to beg.
At this point, why bother, why going into a marriage, why swearing to himself to 'move mountains and seas' to be with Bailey? Just to have someone to snuggle with? When his intentions were from the beginning to drop it all, shake hands and say 'hey guys, sorry for the misunderstanding, still pals?'?
And now you imply that Joel's plan (because you're considering the human, not the dog) could embrace Bailey abandoning her own species and life, which would cause a series of disturbances in her existence, knowing how hard it had affected HIM a similar transition? In this case, Joel not only wouldn't have improved at all, but he would prove that he's even WORSE, if his faith in his own species is so weak as to take a transformed canine to have someone at his side. Talk about disturbing.
While now, as *everything* we read and saw in all this time since that first, fatal transfomation, suggests that he's truly happy as he is. He still is upset that he can't enjoy the legal rights (and the longer lifespan) of a human, but from the grumpy 'I-wanna-be-human!' to what we see today there is something more important than just a new aspect.
There is someone who has learnt a lesson and made the best of it.
And now will fight to defend it.

Gren wrote:
So you're saying humans are inherently evil. You must really hate yourself. :?
Keene is not doing anything for Pete. He just has his own agenda and will do whatever it takes to bring to fruition the dream of his father. He's not evil, just a businessman. 8-)

You are invited (and this is a personal consideration, not a modding) not to analyze me, just as I won't do so with you, thank you.
The above post explained better than I would about Keene's partnership with Pete. The problem is that many clues suggest that Keene is getting drunk with power. And that is *not* a good thing. I understand and appreciate his agenda to help animal rights, but when to do so he'd forcefully separate Sabrina and Fido, I could insinuate that *you* have a problem if you can't see how wrong is that.
Any other philosophical consideration about humankind, I'll gladly discuss it in PM, as I think it's be OT here.

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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Eh, you people get too worked up over the smallest things.


Tue May 13, 2014 2:17 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Foxstar wrote:
Eh, you people get too worked up over the smallest things.

How did you notice?

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Tue May 13, 2014 2:25 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Darastrixen wrote:
Everything about the Baily/King wedding, including the Feraga marriage fiasco, was orchestrated by Kene with the intention of fulfilling *his* (not Pete's) goals of animal rights. The two, however, just so happen to coincide very nicely, and as long as it continues that way, they have a powerful business relation. It seems clear from the end of the Trail in Heaven that Pete had no interest in Baily whatsoever until he learned about the relationship between her and King, and then, circumstantially, Pete's greatest mortal ally takes major steps out of his way to make sure the two end up together?

To recap, Baily was eligible to appear in Babylon Gardens due to somewhat suspicious circumstances; her owners suddenly found a new place that just happens not to accept dogs. Why did they suddenly want to move? Where did the money come from? Perhaps a coincidence...However, she then appears in Babylon Gardens, where she joins King under the Wolves' roof. The Wolves' licenses are held by the ferrets, and the house is owned by the ferrets. They get married on the ferrets' estate under aggressive protection of the ferrets' legal team. It's entirely possible that Kene would have done something like this without being influenced, it does fit his goals, but the timing is...uncanny.

Actually I am more concerned of the fact that no one has ever stopped to think of the huge coincidence that King's first and best friend turned out to be the same dog he kidnapped when he was human. And was even more shocking when he mysteriously fell in love with his cousin which look a lot alike him and then ended up to live in the same house in BG. I always wanted to believe that Pete has something to do with this cause it's too much of a coincidence but at this point I hardly know what to think anymore. :?

valerio wrote:
With due respect, you seem to miss the point.
King surely misses being a human, but he has adapted. And if that, at first, was because he had started with no choice at all, then, with time, being a dog made him someone better. he found a LIFE, he built something new and beautiful (although plagued by the likes of Bino and Petey). And even if you were right about him not wanting to be alone, think again: just a step before the altar, just a step before engaging for the life with a DOG, he had been offered, literally, the FREE 'out-of-jail' ticket! Pete told him clearly that King would cease to exist within one year. he only had to wait and voilà! Free ride home without even having to beg.
At this point, why bother, why going into a marriage, why swearing to himself to 'move mountains and seas' to be with Bailey? Just to have someone to snuggle with? When his intentions were from the beginning to drop it all, shake hands and say 'hey guys, sorry for the misunderstanding, still pals?'?

Just because he has adapted to live as a dog doesn't mean he can't adapt to live as human again and the same applies to Bailey.

What King has learned is that pets aren't that much different from humans as he thought. They're not irrational beast. They have feelings and love to live with the conforts of a human lifestyle with their owners. Maybe their vision of the world is much simpler than what humans have, and they actually don't care much about future but still they are like any other person. They have their own problems and deal with them the best they can (as humans do). Everyone is unique in their own way with unique personalities and there is no difference to relate with them than with humans, no matter if it's about friendship, romance or enmity. There was never a huge difference between animals and humankind to begin with.

valerio wrote:
And now you imply that Joel's plan (because you're considering the human, not the dog) could embrace Bailey abandoning her own species and life, which would cause a series of disturbances in her existence, knowing how hard it had affected HIM a similar transition? In this case, Joel not only wouldn't have improved at all, but he would prove that he's even WORSE, if his faith in his own species is so weak as to take a transformed canine to have someone at his side. Talk about disturbing.

So you find more disturbing a dog turning into a human to be in love with another human than a human turning into a dog to be in love with another dog? I'm not sure how works your mind and I don't want to judge you, but I can't see what's the big difference here.

And why are you trying so hard to separate King from Joel when they're the same entity? Each of King's doings are Joel' doings. It was always about the same guy, the only things that changed were his name and his body but his soul and his mind is still the same. Everything he has learned as King he also has learned it as Joel.

Besides, all what I said was about the hypothetical case of Joel turning back to his human form. If Bailey wants to be human in order to be with King then that would be her own choice. I really doubt that Joel would dare to force her to make such decision.

I'm sure Bailey is not in love of his body but his soul. It would be kind of hypocritical otherwise. If that so then there was no “true love” to begin with, just physical attraction. If King was able to renounce to his human life and, as you said, moved mountains and seas to be with Bailey then why do you think Bailey is not willing to do the same? I don't think that even matters so long as they have their happily ever after. I know this comic is about little furry animals but it's not a big deal to be human, you know?

valerio wrote:
You are invited (and this is a personal consideration, not a modding) not to analyze me, just as I won't do so with you, thank you.
The above post explained better than I would about Keene's partnership with Pete. The problem is that many clues suggest that Keene is getting drunk with power. And that is *not* a good thing. I understand and appreciate his agenda to help animal rights, but when to do so he'd forcefully separate Sabrina and Fido, I could insinuate that *you* have a problem if you can't see how wrong is that.
Any other philosophical consideration about humankind, I'll gladly discuss it in PM, as I think it's be OT here.

Woah, relax, sorry if I offended you but as I said before, you kinda scared me.
I've never said Keene is a flawless person but you have to admit that he somehow manages to help people every time even when it's not his intention. And about the Jata incident, had it not been for Keene, Fido would never have had the courage to admit his love for Sabrina in public. Look at how happy they're now. And I'm sure he'll find some use of this forbidden inter-species relationship as well.
But what can I say? At the end it's all about personal preferences.

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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Darastrixen wrote:
In regards to the first point: I don't think Grape and Baily can be truly compared in this sense. I don't want to accidentally spark any emotion here, but Grape and Max don't exactly have the same kind of relationship as do Baily and King. If you think waaaay back to when Max and Grape first got together, the only reason they started as an official couple in the first place was because Max happened to be in exactly the right place at the right time wearing his most pathetic-looking face. Since then, although it's clear that Grape still likes him, it's still a work in progress. To use her own words: "Maxie has been growing on me..." Max/Grape fight and squabble (albeit in an adorable way), and Grape essentially forgot about Max in a heartbeat the moment Jata set foot in town.


I would think you are correct in the first point: Bailey and Grape cannot be truly compared. They are vastly different in personalities, however I think you are ignoring that exact fact when you point out your reasons for them having a different kind of relationship. Grape and Max both are more playful and whimsical in nature, and Grape at least is far less concerned about relationships, love, and emotions. Consider the point that nobody even knew her GENDER until she said so herself YEARS into her life at Babylon Gardens. As far as love went, she didn't care.

as for her fangirling over Jata, she never intended on leaving him for Jata.
Grape wrote:
Maxie's fine! what's he got to worry about?


They're a cute couple, more serious about each other than either of them would be willing to admit, and playful and whimsical enough to make it look like they aren't really serious to anyone who doesn't know someone with that kind of attitude.

Also, I forgot who linked to FACE but I want to thank you, it's my favorite strip and I was too lazy to actually hunt it down. :lol:

EDIT: Ah, Argent, thanks for linking it. :D


Tue May 13, 2014 3:26 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
I will retain my previous comment and avoid being drawn into this argument. :) *Sees someone grab a pencil*
Crap!
:shock:

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Tue May 13, 2014 5:18 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
All I have to say to this scene is simply: What What What? Bailey nooooooooooooooo! Stupid giant pigeon! :x :shock: :o :?: :(

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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
valerio wrote:
Hm, I can't honestly see King reverting into Joel. he's not interested in becoming a symbol. He has come to love this life, he has learnt the lesson that Pete wanted (at least in the grif's words) to teach him. If anything, reverting King into Joel would destroy everything King as built for himself and around himself. And if King wanted to do his part to save the world, he may accept to work for the Milton foundation (at least, Snakeene's goal IS equality for animals, despite his means).
No, Joel is a burned bridge. The most audacious development I see is King confessing the truth to Fox as well and prove it with a temporary transformation, but that's all.

...There is someone who has learnt a lesson and made the best of it.
And now will fight to defend it.


I do hope you're right...and I love your name for Keene! :lol:

Also, because I can't resist...

"FIGHT KING! FOR EVERLASTING PEACE!"

King wrote:
Uhh...can I just fight to get my wife and life back and to take down the putrid parrot?


"Umm...sure, you can do that too...but FIGHT!"

IceKitsune wrote:
Notice that at no point does anyone in this arc read the contract. There are going to be parts in there that screw Bailey over.


Yeah...darn fine print...too small even for Bailey's reading glasses :P

Foxstar wrote:
Eh, you people get too worked up over the smallest things.


All part of the fun. :P


Tue May 13, 2014 9:06 pm
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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Pete's last line must have cut King really deeply.

Poor Bailey, she has no idea what she is doing. Neither of them seem to be very deep thinkers.

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Post Re: 2014/05/12 - She Loves Me
Ty-Guy6 wrote:
3. She's shocked by the revelation the her husband's a man

I'm sorry, I just had to highlight that. I find good enjoyment in things making complete sense in context when they would be absolutely ludicrous otherwise. :lol:


Wed May 14, 2014 2:41 am
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