2014/09/12 - You Have Chosen...

[JamesWolf]

THERE IS NO CHOICE. its simple really.

the watch was given to him from Bahamut, so GK has no right to offer what is already his, the ability to decide his own appearance and fate.
and the GK already gave him the lantern so again the same apply's. unless he wants to play "my gift, my rules"

take both and walk away King, its already yours.

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

King was promised one boon immediately to make up for Pete's misdeeds up to that point, and then one after the game. Assuming the first was his finding and becoming a soulmate of Bailey's, would it be fair even by Kitsune standards to for all intense and purposes take that away for his second?

[RandomGeekNamedBrent]

King was promised one boon immediately to make up for Pete's misdeeds up to that point, and then one after the game. Assuming the first was his finding and becoming a soulmate of Bailey's, would it be fair even by Kitsune standards to for all intense and purposes take that away for his second?

I think that boon was actually his being adopted by the ferrets/wolves. Bailey just came as a bonus.

[Obbl]

the watch was given to him from Bahamut, so GK has no right to offer what is already his, the ability to decide his own appearance and fate.
and the GK already gave him the lantern so again the same apply's. unless he wants to play "my gift, my rules"

I believe the objects in question are merely representations of the choice King has to make, so it's not that Kitsune is giving King the objects but the choice.

[dtlux1]

What if this is one of those times, where the outcome is chosen already, and it just seems like you have a choice? Like in some games, you get multiple choices, that all lead to the same outcome. The same thing could happen here. What if GK chose for Joel, and is just making it seem like he has a choice. Probably not what is happening though.

Has anyone thought that is King becomes Joel again that maybe Bailey will become human too?
But we all know what's going to happen, he's going to want to remain a dog.

Yes, that is the topic of many posts on Wednesday's comic discussion.

They shouldn't have children right away is what I'm saying.

I agree, but it would still be good if they do.

OR SHE IS ALREADY PREGNANT AND THEN JOEL TURNS HUMAN AND SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHERE CHILDREN CAME FROM! EXCEPT THIS COULDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE KING NEVER EXISTED!

So Rick lied then? He promised a happy ending, and neither of these are actually happy. They're false happiness, like false hope given. Urgh, if it wasn't for the "no real life stuff" on sites like this because people a babies about having things compared to something that makes them feel uncomfortable I'd go on a rant...but what's the point. Rick doesn#t care what any of us say because if he did, then he'd stop with the poor story telling. Funny page/arc, serious arc with dramatic event that...isn't really all that, funny page/arc, serious arc with dramatic event. Being serious doesn't means something dramatic has to happen, and yet every single serious bit of story has something dramatic happen. WHy did Fido have to be publicly outed as a cat lover with his love on the line, why couldn't he and Sabrina just come out together with confidence? Because Rick can't actually tell a good story he can only do dramatic events and comedy.

Mod Edit:This, folks is now how you offer critical viewpoints here. Take note that this is the 'wrong' way

One honest question, not trying to offend anyone. But if you don't like the way the story is going enough to insult the author, why are you here. Just wondering, not trying to offend you.

[Amoren]

Just wanted to pop in to provide my two cents. In my opinion, I think the 'random' choice is less about trying to make a simple choice difficult, or to trick Joel/King, as its more providing a moral way out for Joel to choice whichever fate he wishes. "I can't feel guilty about picking a fulfilling, rich life as a human because it was never really my decision, it was pure luck. Besides, its not like my friends will miss me now..." Likewise, "I can't feel guilty about picking a life of my own as a dog with those I've come to love and admire, because it was luck which locked me into this role."

Whether it is an actual random choice (and Kitsune isn't just telling him that to alleviate any guilt or regret he may feel latter on), I'm not sure.

Personally, I think the best choice is for him to choose both, considering I don't think Kitsune ever said he had to pick one. He only said he had to choose, and choosing both is a valid course it seems.

[Leven]

Just wanted to pop in to provide my two cents. In my opinion, I think the 'random' choice is less about trying to make a simple choice difficult, or to trick Joel/King, as its more providing a moral way out for Joel to choice whichever fate he wishes. "I can't feel guilty about picking a fulfilling, rich life as a human because it was never really my decision, it was pure luck. Besides, its not like my friends will miss me now..." Likewise, "I can't feel guilty about picking a life of my own as a dog with those I've come to love and admire, because it was luck which locked me into this role."

Whether it is an actual random choice (and Kitsune isn't just telling him that to alleviate any guilt or regret he may feel latter on), I'm not sure.

Personally, I think the best choice is for him to choose both, considering I don't think Kitsune ever said he had to pick one. He only said he had to choose, and choosing both is a valid course it seems.

But if he chooses both, it won't counteract that he has to make friends with the pets again as they'll forget him and he won't have godly help. So his life would be very sad indeed.

Now I think the best choice would be to become the dog, life is full of surprises and he'll have a mate/wife. He'll also have friends, allies, and a simple life no job or reason to work. He'll also not have to worry about money, and he'll be able to live in the mansion anyways. So yeah who knows, even though I consider Joel as King would be quite awesome he might become a human. But what ever Rick decides, I'll be fine with his choice as it's his comic and he is/has been doing this comic for free.

[Amoren]

But if he chooses both, it won't counteract that he has to make friends with the pets again as they'll forget him and he won't have godly help. So his life would be very sad indeed.

Now I think the best choice would be to become the dog, life is full of surprises and he'll have a mate/wife. He'll also have friends, allies, and a simple life no job or reason to work. He'll also not have to worry about money, and he'll be able to live in the mansion anyways. So yeah who knows, even though I consider Joel as King would be quite awesome he might become a human. But what ever Rick decides, I'll be fine with his choice as it's his comic and he is/has been doing this comic for free.

My belief is that if both is a valid option, then both lives will occur. I believe in the binge read I did of the series, its stated or hinted a few times that he has different destinies, one as a human (Joel) and one as a dog (King). Its possible selecting both will allow the 'human' Joel to return to that life with no memory of ever being a Dog, then King would remain, perhaps with the memories of all of these experiences, or not.

Either way, another thing to bring up is that Joel is not stated to be cleared of his sins, only his criminal record as a human, and its been hinted at several times that he has quite a bit to answer for when it comes time to be judged. And as has been stated before, given that its much easier for a dog to get into heaven than it is a human, he may not be able to apply if he returns to human - especially if he doesn't have the knowledge of his own guilt to try to redeem himself for. Perhaps that's what the symbols before on the boxes meant, denoting which one would send his ultimate resting place up, or down?

[dtlux1]

But if he chooses both, it won't counteract that he has to make friends with the pets again as they'll forget him and he won't have godly help. So his life would be very sad indeed.

Now I think the best choice would be to become the dog, life is full of surprises and he'll have a mate/wife. He'll also have friends, allies, and a simple life no job or reason to work. He'll also not have to worry about money, and he'll be able to live in the mansion anyways. So yeah who knows, even though I consider Joel as King would be quite awesome he might become a human. But what ever Rick decides, I'll be fine with his choice as it's his comic and he is/has been doing this comic for free.

My belief is that if both is a valid option, then both lives will occur. I believe in the ping read I did of the series, its stated or hinted a few times that he has different destinies, one as a human (Joel) and one as a dog (King). Its possible selecting both will allow the 'human' Joel to return to that life with no memory of ever being a Dog, then King would remain, perhaps with the memories of all of these experiences, or not.

Either way, another thing to bring up is that Joel is not stated to be cleared of his sins, only his criminal record as a human, and its been hinted at several times that he has quite a bit to answer for when it comes time to be judged. And as has been stated before, given that its much easier for a dog to get into heaven than it is a human, he may not be able to apply if he returns to human - especially if he doesn't have the knowledge of his own guilt to try to redeem himself for. Perhaps that's what the symbols before on the boxes meant, denoting which one would send his ultimate resting place up, or down?

One question keeps crossing my mind when people say both. HOW! They are the same person, so if he chose both, what would happen. There isn't 2 of him, and splitting him would be weird, and I don't think it would work. Go to the human life, animals forget he exists, but then there he is, and he wants to talk to best friend and wife, and nothing happens, because they do not know him.

Just wanted to pop in to provide my two cents. In my opinion, I think the 'random' choice is less about trying to make a simple choice difficult, or to trick Joel/King, as its more providing a moral way out for Joel to choice whichever fate he wishes. "I can't feel guilty about picking a fulfilling, rich life as a human because it was never really my decision, it was pure luck. Besides, its not like my friends will miss me now..." Likewise, "I can't feel guilty about picking a life of my own as a dog with those I've come to love and admire, because it was luck which locked me into this role."

Whether it is an actual random choice (and Kitsune isn't just telling him that to alleviate any guilt or regret he may feel latter on), I'm not sure.

Personally, I think the best choice is for him to choose both, considering I don't think Kitsune ever said he had to pick one. He only said he had to choose, and choosing both is a valid course it seems.

Same question applies. How would this work, as it would be a direct contradiction to the other choice. This is a semidecent idea, but I don't see how it would work, so it has some holes in it.

[Amoren]

I suppose it would depend on if a soul could be in two different places and/or times at once... Actually, because of that stint with Peanut in an astral world earlier, we know that would be true at least to some respect.

As it stands, Joel/King has destinies with both lives, thanks to the two spoiled teenager's game. His destiny as a human, and his destiny as a dog. And while its been stated that he'll have to make a choice relating to those again and again, its never stated that he had to pick one over the other, over both. If he picks both, I think they'll be a Joel and a King running around, although the Joel might not be known by Joel anymore (I do like the idea of him being sent back in time and being the ferret's father). This might continue until the end of time, with them essentially becoming two separate people and souls, or they may become one again in heaven, who knows.

Although, I don't think Joel being Milton pans out. If he retains his memory of the time as the game, I don't think he'd be very inclined to help out Peter, especially considering the likely cost involved.

Although I think its most likely that Joel/King will choose to remain King, in fact he had made up his mind about that shortly before Peter started the end game here. The purpose of the choice for Joel/King, likely from a narrative aspect, is merely to make him fully sever his old life and the prospects of an easy life like he wanted as a human, and instead embrace his new life without any regrets.

[SuperStar]

Off topic, but in line with the name of this thread, I just have to say...
...Ninjas...

[CityRedFox]

There's something I'd like to ask: does Joel have a free choice, or he actually have to guess?

Kitsune didn't state which is which. He only said each item contain one of the destinies. So far we have discussed a lot about he should choose human or dog, but ignored the fact that he is going to choose between the lamp and watch, not human life and dog life.

Maybe I just overthink about it, or I'm the only one didn't notice this...

[andwhyisit]

There's something I'd like to ask: does Joel have a free choice, or he actually have to guess?

Kitsune didn't state which is which. He only said each item contain one of the destinies. So far we have discussed a lot about he should choose human or dog, but ignored the fact that he is going to choose between the lamp and watch, not human life and dog life.

Maybe I just overthink about it, or I'm the only one didn't notice this...

Yeah I mentioned this on the previous page of this thread. If you compare the natures of said items to the descriptions of each destiny then the lamp (freedom from divine intervention) should represent the dog destiny while the watch (fate) should represent the human destiny. So it is more a puzzle if anything. Though yes, Joel has to determine which item represents which destiny and then choose the destiny he wants, or failing that, guess.

[Clockwork Hero]

"I can promise you not a thing"

That there is some key phrasing. Not promising something is not the same as denying it.

And Kitsune is a DM, if he says he can't promise you something it means you'll get it anyways and that he just wants to have plausible deniability that he helped you at all.

[Nightfirex]

*takes out fire extinguisher and cool down this forum* wow this forum is hot, so much heat and criticism , I dare say that Joel choice is just affecting the storyline but the audience as well. We my statement here will be short since seem the new comic will be here and people will be more focus on Joel choice then reading this, or will he? Cause one of things that happening here is that he is a playing another 'game'. Meaning he has time to make a choice, we forget that even though the choice is his, there still his friends and wife behind him to talk to about this. But I am sure the author wouldn't drag this out to keep people in suspense. Lord knows everyone is pins and needles on what will Joel do. Though I want to point out something, and then I'll give my analysis later after the comic is made.

*Put up his 'Avatar for Pete' flag and continues*

Both destinies are boons. I wanted to point that out, both destinies have 'happy' endings, if we want to use the term. The thing with GK is that he is a teacher and a tricker, like Pete is. The first step to one happiness began with opening the door. So Joel decision is more about what will make him 'happy'. We saw in their arc that Mortals earn their happiness, some demigods like to be more involved in mortal lives and change is necessary to grow. So joel situation show two destines, Happiness on earth, or happiness in heaven. How can I come to that conclusion, look at the comic and what GK said. If joel remains a dog the future isn't set in stone for him, but the human life it is. Rick had a interesting way of foreshadowing in so few words and again the bread crumbs is all we have to pick from. GK is testing Joel, he want to see if Joel will pick heaven over earth. Joel had the blessing of experiencing heaven, but it hurt him cause of what he saw and wanted to leave, which was troubling to the divine beings. Because in either destiny he will be judged. See that the key right there, either destiny he will be "judge". If he stay human, he will be judge as a human, yes his happiness will be on earth a he will have a happy ending on earth but the skeletons in his closet may exclude him from heaven cause human have a stricter code. As a dog the rules are less strict and as we have seen in previous comics, and though he wrong some people, he can "earn" his way back into heaven as a dog. So there you are folks, a lot of us are looking at the short term about his wife, his friends, his change and that is all important but GK was looking at something more, and now he putting Joel to the test to see if Joel really did learn his lesson in his game.

See you all after the comic.

[Obbl]

"I can promise you not a thing"

That there is some key phrasing. Not promising something is not the same as denying it.

And Kitsune is a DM, if he says he can't promise you something it means you'll get it anyways and that he just wants to have plausible deniability that he helped you at all.

I'm pretty sure he's saying he can't promise Joel anything about his future life as King because he doesn't know what that future holds. As he says in the next panel, "It is most difficult anticipating the actions of a free agent". He can't anticipate what King is going to do, so he can't tell Joel anything about the future that life holds.
Which brings up an interesting question: Why does he know what future Joel's life holds? Well, since Joel was originally Joel, it stands to reason that the celestial beings would know what his future holds, but ever since King got a hold of his own fate, his future has become unpredictable.
I'm pretty sure Kitsune's being straight with Joel about his destinies. The game that they are playing with the watch and lamp, however, is probably subject to standard Kitsune hijinks.

[Argent]

Kitsune is probably expecting Joel/King to think that the paths are switched to the other object, and therefore did not switch them.

Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. [...]

Edit: I can't come up with a parody that's more awesome than the original, I surrender, and simply post this unedited.

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

Kitsune is probably expecting Joel/King to think that the paths are switched to the other object, and therefore did not switch them.

Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. [...]

Edit: I can't come up with a parody that's more awesome than the original, I surrender, and simply post this unedited.

The pellet with the poison is in the flagon with the dragon, the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true.

[dtlux1]

I suppose it would depend on if a soul could be in two different places and/or times at once... Actually, because of that stint with Peanut in an astral world earlier, we know that would be true at least to some respect.

Yes, that is true. But in that respect, it was time travel, not a soul being split into 2 different souls.

"I can promise you not a thing"

That there is some key phrasing. Not promising something is not the same as denying it.

And Kitsune is a DM, if he says he can't promise you something it means you'll get it anyways and that he just wants to have plausible deniability that he helped you at all.

I'm pretty sure he's saying he can't promise Joel anything about his future life as King because he doesn't know what that future holds. As he says in the next panel, "It is most difficult anticipating the actions of a free agent". He can't anticipate what King is going to do, so he can't tell Joel anything about the future that life holds.
Which brings up an interesting question: Why does he know what future Joel's life holds? Well, since Joel was originally Joel, it stands to reason that the celestial beings would know what his future holds, but ever since King got a hold of his own fate, his future has become unpredictable.
I'm pretty sure Kitsune's being straight with Joel about his destinies. The game that they are playing with the watch and lamp, however, is probably subject to standard Kitsune hijinks.

Interesting point there. His future was intended to be Joel, then cam Pete, so that wasn't planned by celestial beings, and it is his own fate, which could be dangerouse in some ways. I can't wait to see how this plays out.

[ArcWolf]

What if there was a twist ending where Joel chooses to go back to being human, is sent back in time, takes on the name surname Milton, and sets up the events that would lead to the decision in the first place. I think it would make sense considering that in the past his criminal record would not exist since he was either to young to have one on not even born yet. Obviously the Milton fortune is extremely large and some might even say to large, as if some mystical being granted him his every wish. People would not remember him in that time because he simply did not exist yet. Milton was also a bachelor meaning that Joel could still hold Bailey in his heart.

You win.

Here. Take it.

Just take it. You've won.

[Shadowstar23]

Has anyone considered that Joel will simply not choose either and just walk away causing Kitsune to give him the real prize? If you have, then just ignore this.

[Amazee Dayzee]

But why would he walk away when GK told him that he could easily go back to his life as a dog up to that point? For King, I would figure that would be the greatest prize, going back to his wife and his best friend and live happily and maybe in a couple of years have some kids.

[Shadowstar23]

But why would he walk away when GK told him that he could easily go back to his life as a dog up to that point? For King, I would figure that would be the greatest prize, going back to his wife and his best friend and live happily and maybe in a couple of years have some kids.

Your question invalidates itself. If he could go back to a dog at any point, then why did Kitsune offer it as part of the choice?

[Amazee Dayzee]

Because the choice also most likely has him and Bailey never touched by cosmic forces again.

[Shadowstar23]

Umm........has anyone seen the strip yet? I have right now.

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

Umm........has anyone seen the strip yet? I have right now.

Yep, strips up, and Kari's back

[Shadowstar23]

Should we wait for a mod or should one of us make the new thread?

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

Should we wait for a mod or should one of us make the new thread?

They'll get to it.

[Amazee Dayzee]

Yay for more Kari! The comic needs more Kari! But first more Kevin. <3

[Leomon2004]

I suppose it would depend on if a soul could be in two different places and/or times at once... Actually, because of that stint with Peanut in an astral world earlier, we know that would be true at least to some respect.

I think that was due to Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff.

Since Joel chose to remain King I wonder what'll happen in reference to Joel. I mean Joel is "Technically" an escaped convict. Maybe they'll assume he fled the country.

[Argent]

I mean Joel is "Technically" an escaped convict. Maybe they'll assume he fled the country.

"Technically", he did.

[Leomon2004]

I mean Joel is "Technically" an escaped convict. Maybe they'll assume he fled the country.

"Technically", he did.

True. Will the police eventually stop searching for a convict that they have a 0% chance of finding?

[Shadowstar23]

I mean Joel is "Technically" an escaped convict. Maybe they'll assume he fled the country.

"Technically", he did.

True. Will the police eventually stop searching for a convict that they have a 0% chance of finding?

Aye they will.

[Amazee Dayzee]

I assume that GK would manipulate events so that everything that happened as Joel didn't happen so King has no reason to worry anymore, and only the people with him will know that he was Joel.