2016/05/11 - World Weary

[Douglas Collier]

I know I may be the only person who feels this way, but I do hope Keene actually died. I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. I hate when authors make a drastic change, only to hit the cosmic reset button at the end. It plays with the audience's emotions, and wastes time. Keene dying shows Rick isn't afraid to make a huge change and deal with the consequences.

Plus it would be kind of cool to see someone visiting heaven that actually got to stay, for a change.

Problem is, when you start killing off the main characters, where do you stop? Eventually they would all die of old age or other causes - you'd have to start over with a new generation. Without the characters Rick has developed over years that people have become invested in, the comic might lose its appeal to a lot of followers, especially considering he hasn't put much effort into developing another generation of characters, except maybe Miles's cubs.

And honestly, who really wants to see Housepets! turn into a drama?

[Unusuallynamedperson]

Definately not me. But, he sort of has actually, I mean there've been enough couples shown. Zach+Jessica, bailey+King, Sabrina+Fido, and even Peanut+Grape all have potential to create the next gen, tho it could get a little weird.

[bjchan95]

I know I may be the only person who feels this way, but I do hope Keene actually died. I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. I hate when authors make a drastic change, only to hit the cosmic reset button at the end. It plays with the audience's emotions, and wastes time. Keene dying shows Rick isn't afraid to make a huge change and deal with the consequences.

Plus it would be kind of cool to see someone visiting heaven that actually got to stay, for a change.

Also, you need to remember at its base Housepets is a situational comedy. Even some of the greaters arcs have circle around plots, such as Jungle Fever or Wolf's Clothing, but make up for it through the scenarios the characters go through

Plus, death is kinda depressing, Rick is already taking a huge risk here.

[Cesco]

Poor Keene, his and his dad's battle has noble intentions, but his life time doesn't agree with the long time needed for its processes... Indeed, that sounds like a miracle, Keene. Uhm, I hope that this is only a falling asleep because he's visibly tired... Well, anyway, now that he's "back" to Heaven see to do something to help him again, Cerberus. And yes, you're a good lifeguard.

[Unusuallynamedperson]

That haunting class must start sounding like a good idea to him, no?

[leinglo]

I know I may be the only person who feels this way, but I do hope Keene actually died. I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. I hate when authors make a drastic change, only to hit the cosmic reset button at the end. It plays with the audience's emotions, and wastes time. Keene dying shows Rick isn't afraid to make a huge change and deal with the consequences.

Plus it would be kind of cool to see someone visiting heaven that actually got to stay, for a change.

If Rick were to really kill off a character, for the sake of the story he'd have to pick carefully. Someone known and liked well enough by the characters and fans that their loss would have an impact, but not major enough that it would create a noticeable hole in the cast or upset the setting too much, allowing the characters to still be able to move on and continue with their lives. Sure, upsetting the setting like that would be a daring move for a story, but not necessarily this one. This is friggin Housepets, not Gaunt's Ghosts, we don't exactly tune in for hard drama. Anyway, the problem with Keene's life being in jeopardy here is that Keene has sort of set himself up as the framework that a lot of other character's lives are built upon. Without him, the Milton estate would probably collapse, and with it, everything and everyone connected to them, and the goals he's working towards would be as good as ashes.

[ThreeEightNine]

You all make a good point, and it's not like I'm suggesting Rick should decimate the cast. I guess I'm just hoping for something surprising.

[Wolf of Trades]

and then every character dies and the rest of the comic takes place in heaven :^)

[Obbl]

Also of note, Rick has always been careful to make sure arcs that introduce changes don't often return to the status quo at the end. In specific Jungle Fever ousted Fido as a cat lover with many lasting consequences that still haven't been fully played out. I think there's a lot of good story telling Rick could do with Keene dead or alive, though I hope he does live simply because he does have a lot to do that I want to see him accomplish.

[Nameless coyote]

I was just about to write some theorycrafting here and discuss the strip, since I am somewhat attached to my ears as they are now, but seeing the last comments I think I'll also add something more personal - I'm sorry for potentially depressing mood.
ThreeEightNine is definitely not alone here. I'm not saying I want Keene to be dead - he'd qualify as one of my top five characters in this comic. But from the beginning I knew there are two major possibilities for a theme for current arc - either Keene's taught a lesson about life, or he and the readers are to confront and ultimately deal with the death. And as someone who has experienced more death this year than I'd wish for, part of me wants the latter outcome.
That doesn't mean I won't be happy if he's alive. I mean, come on, top five fave! The only situation I wouldn't really like, would be if Keene actually truly died but was somehow resurrected - though I'm rather confident that's not the case.

Ok, so... getting to what I wanted to write in the first place... I've mentioned major [read: those I could think of so far] possible themes for the arc? Let's have a little look.



1. Keene, faced with his own mortality, will be taught a life lesson - about being a better person in general instead of morally relative businessferret - or - living and enjoying life instead of working oneself to the grave.

In any case, this is the most expected course of action and many details point to it, the unusual circumstances of Keene's appearance in Heaven or the nature of flashback (starting with waking up, ending with falling asleep) - in general, such storyline would be a huge milestone in Keene's character development.


Possible problems with this one:
- If he's supposed to learn to be a better person, why is he in Heaven? The title implies he will be there for quite a bit, so if he was to see the alternative, it'd rather be brief. So far the arc also doesn't really mention his morality.
- Would the lesson about taking life easier really work? Sure, he would possibly change his approach to stay healthier, but knowing he might die faster than expected, Keene would probably put more effort into his life mission. Besides, in current strip he already says he doesn't want to spend his life on work. Seeing the Heaven also doesn't help - a place where he knows he could rest after dying for his dream?
It'd require something more to convince him - maybe Henry Milton explaining this isn't the life he wanted for Keene?
- Would that mean Heaven is now in the business of making mistakes?


2. Keene dies and we are taught to accept that

Certainly not what people would expect (and I suppose want) of Houspets. It'd clearly be a bold and unexpected move from Rick's side, potentially shaking the situation dramatically in Babylon Gardens. As a strong potential points, the passing of Keene could be lead to huge character development of other Milton ferrets as well as to quite interesting follow-up storyline. Maybe Duke would finally learn the subtle art of subtlety...? (Nah, that's too much)
Also, if any major character would ever die in the story, this feels like a way to do this - showing their point of view after the death in the bright and happy heaven. Also, Breel.


Possible problems with this one:
- Dark turn of events, quite contrasting with the usual nature of the comic.
- If Keene really dead, why are the circumstances of his demise so unclear and unusual? If it's just for giving the audience false hope, it doesn't really feel right.
- The theme of dealing with death doesn't seem to require four animals now - Keene at the moment seems to have at least partially accepted the fact he died. There has to something more.
- While the sadness of Keene's death can be reduced showing him being and heaven and all, it's hard to imagine everything would be looking so fine while we're back to Earth.


I've mentioned I'm bad at theorycrafting, but I felt the need to write this one. Maybe it will start some interesting discussion and someone will point out what possibilities are missing and where I've made mistakes.


Before I go though:

Problem is, when you start killing off the main characters, where do you stop?

You can stop at one. I really don't understand where the concern is coming from, one-time major event doesn't mean the comic will suddenly become Game of Housepets. Besides,there's been death and dark themes in the story already. Should I remind anyone of certain adorable puppy?
Also as for characters dying of old age etc... Housepets will eventually end. Will it be in five, fifteen or fifty years, one day it will happen.


Ok. Done with this wall of text. Sorry. You can bite now.

[Adoring Fan]

Definately not me. But, he sort of has actually, I mean there've been enough couples shown. Zach+Jessica, bailey+Keene, Sabrina+Fido, and even Peanut+Grape all have potential to create the next gem, tho it could get a little weird.

Peanut & Grape Forever!!!!!

I know I may be the only person who feels this way, but I do hope Keene actually died. I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. I hate when authors make a drastic change, only to hit the cosmic reset button at the end. It plays with the audience's emotions, and wastes time. Keene dying shows Rick isn't afraid to make a huge change and deal with the consequences.

Plus it would be kind of cool to see someone visiting heaven that actually got to stay, for a change.

If Rick were to really kill off a character, for the sake of the story he'd have to pick carefully. Someone known and liked well enough by the characters and fans that their loss would have an impact, but not major enough that it would create a noticeable hole in the cast or upset the setting too much, allowing the characters to still be able to move on and continue with their lives. Sure, upsetting the setting like that would be a daring move for a story, but not necessarily this one. This is friggin Housepets, not Gaunt's Ghosts, we don't exactly tune in for hard drama. Anyway, the problem with Keene's life being in jeopardy here is that Keene has sort of set himself up as the framework that a lot of other character's lives are built upon. Without him, the Milton estate would probably collapse, and with it, everything and everyone connected to them, and the goals he's working towards would be as good as ashes.

I agree.. Keene is too central to the story to just up and die without this turning into a hardcore drama.. Without Keene King and baily become just ownerless pets in the eyes of that world and the wolves would likely be ousted just for being wolves. I really don't want to see Housepets take this route... Cosmic games played bu gods? I can handle that... Hardcore drama and persecution and worst of all the death of a loved charictor? I can find that in other comics... It would really turn me off to housepets as a whole.

Also since people are referencing the puppy... That puppy was an anonymous pet meant to illustrate Cerberus's job and set the stage for there part later. It was over in one frame and not something we were forced to stew over either.

[BasedDook]

Something to note if Keene really IS dead:
That doesn't mean he's out of the story. The pets have visited heaven before and heaven has been a setting in multiple different story arches. And knowing Keene, he's not going to let a little thing like death keep him from fulfilling his father's dream. I think the haunting/vision classes might play more into the future of Housepets than a simple joke. Besides, if he does remain in heaven, we'd get more Breel and Keene together and everyone would like more of that I think.

[johnwolf]

I don't think Keene is dead, Rick absolutely made sure you knew if someone died. Keene just Woke up in heaven without any reason. I believe Keene's last line "i Want to Live in my Dad's World" is key to this. Heaven IS pretty close to his dad's vision after all

[tsMKG]

If he's dead, I don't think he will be dead forever. Maybe he'll be some time there and then he will escape from Heaven with Karishad in an arc named "Escape from Heaven" (?!)

[leinglo]

If he's dead, I don't think he will be dead forever. Maybe he'll be some time there and then he will escape from Heaven with Karishad in an arc named "Escape from Heaven" (?!)

I don't know. I think actually bringing someone back from the completely dead would be going a little too far into the fantastic, and that's taking into account that we've just had a time travel arc. If Keene's merely having an out of body experience or a very close call (say, a coma), as suspected, that would be one thing, but if he actually has fully crossed over the line, so to speak, that's a line that needs to be respected come what may.

[Zarpaulus]

If he's dead, I don't think he will be dead forever. Maybe he'll be some time there and then he will escape from Heaven with Karishad in an arc named "Escape from Heaven" (?!)

Yeah, no, that would be too cheesy.

At most, I think Keene might go for reincarnation, but somehow I don't think he'd be willing to "start over from square one" in the most thorough way possible. I think he's more likely to haunt his brothers, Lana seems pretty responsible in comparison.

Definately not me. But, he sort of has actually, I mean there've been enough couples shown. Zach+Jessica, bailey+King, Sabrina+Fido, and even Peanut+Grape all have potential to create the next gem, tho it could get a little weird.

You realize three-quarters of those couples (I'm assuming you meant King, not Keene) are species that can't crossbreed? Not that they couldn't adopt or something.

[Unusuallynamedperson]

What did you think I meant by weird?

[leinglo]

What did you think I meant by weird?

Weird = Puppens (puppies/kittens)

[Unusuallynamedperson]

weird == puppins, missing characters, odd story arcs, certain types of relationships not found previously, a possible format of resurrection, and a number of to be compiled data sets.

[Sansash]

Whatever happens I need more Breel and Keene. So adorable.

(I may have made an account to post this >_> )

I agree with this as well. We need more of that.

In all honesty, it kind of makes me uncomfortable. The idea of romance between unwed individuals in heaven just feels wrong to me. I don't want to start any argument - I just want to voice my concern.

No one said anything about that!... we were just thinking it really hard

[Saturn381]

What is going on with this thread?

[leinglo]

What is going on with this thread?

I'm pretty sure it started with discussing Keene's mortality. Something happened between here and there...I'm reasonably certain that hitting the Submit button after typing the word "puppens" did not help. Yeah...

[Sleet]

What is going on with this thread?

I have nooo idea and I'm just staying out of it.

[Naro Rivers]

Was that "CLACK" the door... or his neck?

Middle head is not amused

When is Middle Head ever amused?

Possibly old age? I've never thought of Keene as old, but as I think about it, don't smaller animals in this world age 7.5 years for every year? That'd be over 50 years of aging in the time since the ferrets were introduced in 2009.

Rick has stated before that, as a general rule, animals live twice as long as their real-world counterparts. Ferrets, on average, have a life expectancy of seven to ten years in our universe, so Keene (and his siblings) could live to be fourteen to twenty. The ferrets, as you said, first showed up in 2009, or seven years ago. In May, 2010, Duke said he was four years old. Assuming the ferrets were one litter, that would make them all around ten now. If they were from different litters... then it's impossible to say how old Keene is.

Heck, he never even had a chance to use that mana that Pete gave him (although would that even still be good, after what happened on that front?).

It's not currently known whether the mana Karishad gave to Tarot to send Satau back to the past was Keene's. Karishad works for, and reports directly to, Keene, so it's not that much of a stretch to think he had Keene's mana. However, Karishad being Karishad, it's entirely possible that he just found it lying about.

Zach+Jessica, bailey+Keene, Sabrina+Fido, and even Peanut+Grape all have potential to create the next gem

Peanut and Grape are not officially a couple. Peanut is with Tarot and Grape is with Max. Peanut had a crush on Grape, but that appears to have been resolved.

That would mean, though, that Peanut and Grape could potentially reproduce with their respective significant others.

[Argent]

In all honesty, it kind of makes me uncomfortable. The idea of romance between unwed individuals in heaven just feels wrong to me. I don't want to start any argument - I just want to voice my concern.

Animals in the HP world generally don't get married. King/Bailey and Sabrina/Jata were explicitly exceptions, and the latter at least was pushed by Keene for political reasons. King's big wedding was a political thing too, really, even if it was for the good.

Maybe learning that you don't play politics with affections is another lesson for Keene?

[Adoring Fan]

If he's dead, I don't think he will be dead forever. Maybe he'll be some time there and then he will escape from Heaven with Karishad in an arc named "Escape from Heaven" (?!)

I don't know. I think actually bringing someone back from the completely dead would be going a little too far into the fantastic, and that's taking into account that we've just had a time travel arc. If Keene's merely having an out of body experience or a very close call (say, a coma), as suspected, that would be one thing, but if he actually has fully crossed over the line, so to speak, that's a line that needs to be respected come what may.

Sooo... Coming back from the dead is going too far, but the universe being the setting for a D&D game played by demigods while one human who was turned into a dog go's on an epic quest to heaven in order to beseech a greater deity to save his wife who is also a dog was totally acceptable?

[House42]

Possibly old age? I've never thought of Keene as old, but as I think about it, don't smaller animals in this world age 7.5 years for every year? That'd be over 50 years of aging in the time since the ferrets were introduced in 2009.

I can't exactly remember where it was said, and saying who said it is a stab in the dark. But I'm pretty sure Rick said words to the effect that time is elongated in the comic and that characters do not age unless a plot calls for them to age.
For example Rook, Ace and Olive can't stay puppies forever.

[Obbl]

^This has always been my understanding

[leinglo]

Sooo... Coming back from the dead is going too far, but the universe being the setting for a D&D game played by demigods while one human who was turned into a dog go's on an epic quest to heaven in order to beseech a greater deity to save his wife who is also a dog was totally acceptable?

...well, when you put it like that...kinda?

In all seriousness, though, the way I see it, death is on something of a different level entirely from the usual fantasy hijinks, and I've always had bit of a pet peeve about it being messed with. If death isn't taken seriously, then life itself ceases to have much meaning. If there's a way to come back from the dead, why fight for your life, or the lives of others? The death of a beloved friend doesn't have as much impact when you're straying into DBZ-like territory and the characters are all like "eh, we can just wish 'em back." D&D-like settings, where relatively commonplace resurrection magic exist, are another offender on that front, and Order of the Stick even takes time to lampshade/make fun it, as Heaven itself has a literal revolving door.

I guess my point here is that if Keene were really dead, and came back with a fantasy hand-wave of some kind, it would not only give his own life less meaning (especially since he's so worried about not wanting to "die with the job still incomplete"), but it would lessen it for everyone else with the simple knowledge that such a way out exists. Like using cheats in a videogame and after that the game just isn't as fun anymore.

[VoidGaming404]

So how did Keene die?

I am going to make a guess here, but it could be a heart attack caused from stress. With all he is fighting for, it wouldn't be surprising that his heart would give from the sheer pressure of the situation.

[Naro Rivers]

D&D-like settings, where relatively commonplace resurrection magic exist, are another offender on that front

Resurrection and true resurrection are high-level spells (seventh and ninth, respectively, out of nine) and not common in D&D. Only bards and clerics can cast resurrection and only clerics and druids can cast true resurrection. Bards and clerics gain access to seventh-level spells at thirteenth level (out of twenty) and only ever get two seventh-level spell slots. Clerics and druids gain access to ninth level spells at seventeenth level and only ever get one ninth-level slot. This means that resurrection can only be used twice (plus however many eighth- and ninth-level slots the character has) and true resurrection can only be used once between long rests, using spell slots that could be better used on combat spells.

They are also costly to use in material components. Resurrection requires a diamond worth 1,000 gold pieces, which the spell consumes, and access to the body. True resurrection requires a sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth at least 25,000 gold pieces, which the spell consumes.

The spirit of the deceased must also be willing to return.

High-level NPC clerics (who usually resurrect fallen player characters) are few and far between, residing in temples in only the largest, most populous cities, and charge the party a hefty price for their services (even more than if a party member performed it). Players' bards, clerics, and druids generally don't live long enough to gain access to those spells, and I personally think that if they do survive until that point, they've earned it.

[leinglo]

D&D-like settings, where relatively commonplace resurrection magic exist, are another offender on that front

Resurrection and true resurrection are high-level spells (seventh and ninth, respectively, out of nine) and not common in D&D.

698384.jpg (11.11 KiB) Viewed 8554 times

Alright, fine. You're right. Cross that bit out of what I said. The point I was making remains the same.

[Naro Rivers]

I'm just saying that resurrection can be done well and isn't always cheap as a story element (and kind of that D&D was a bad example for your point). Another example would be Phil Coulson from Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Argent]

Ah, how to maintain a sense of tension when resurrection is easy...

If you really want to bake your cookies, here's a few novels worth exploring:

Linda Nagata: Vast
Greg Egan: Schild's Ladder, Diaspora.
Charlie Stross: Accelerando, Glasshouse.
Iain Banks: Surface Detail.

And then read these four stories in order, all based on the premise that when you go through a matter transmitter, both the original and the copy walk out of the box:

Algys Budrys: Rogue Moon.
Frederick Pohl: The Saga of Cuckoo.
Vernor Vinge: Just Peace.
James Patrick Kelly: Think like a Dinosaur.

This was an old schtick well before The Prestige (I didn't include the original story in the list because Christopher Priest copped out on the premise).