2017/10/25 - Two Heads Are Better Than Three

[D-Rock]

[2017/10/25 - Two Heads Are Better Than Three]
Title Text: no spoilers! besides I can't get any cell reception in here.

Temple Crashers; It's basically Dark Souls.
I'll show myself out now.

[Gbr23]

Yep, this one looks like a difficult one. If only there was some kind of .. I don't know, Puzzle Master... With a really cool hat...

[Saturn381]

Yup, Pete really did not want anyone in here.

[leinglo]

I like Hayley's (Order of the Stick) solution to the "one always lies, one always tells the truth" puzzle.

Shoot one in the foot and see if they lie about it or not.

Personally, I'm fond of XKCD's version:

[GameCobra]

You just realized that, Tarot? =P

[Welsh Halfwit]

The trick, the trap, the guardians three,
even more special than you can know.
It’s not all to test the physical strength;
the mind is a muscle as well, you know?
Tarot still thinks she has the answers,
even when she doesn’t know the riddle.
It’s perfect for her, really. Truth, lies
with her somewhere in the middle.
Now they need a puzzle master dog
to unlock the power of the quest
but, if he’ll help after being dumped?
That’s the next question to be guessed.

[John-056]

Yup, Pete really did not want anyone in here.

Considering what would happen if some Mortal waltzed in and used all that Mana for Evil, or Worse, for stupidity, then of COURSE Pete didn't want anyone near his Mana! Ironically, this just shows he was at least more knowledgeable when it came to Mortals, knowing how Vile, or Stupid they can be with Power.

As the saying Goes: "Nearly all (Mortals) can stand adversity, but if you want to test a (Mortal)'s character, give (them) power."

The saying may be from Abraham Lincoln, and uses 'Man' and 'Him' rather than 'Mortal' and 'Them', but it's still the same in the end. Keene's going down a Dark Path with his plans for the Mana. It's why Breel was sent to him, to try and make him see what he's starting to become.

[D-Rock]

Though Pete didn't stop him when he came in looking to make good on Pete's promise earlier. Even made him a minion. While not access to the full mana pool, it probably would have gotten him something if Pete was still around.

Though I will grant, Pete was in control of that situation, and he's currently out of the picture. And Keene DID say that he wouldn't be a monster, but didn't have anything against being evil, as he said in Jungle Fever.

I guess in this case, Pete was the jerk that kept the other jerks in line.

[Sweetooth]

I don't know what's the fuss about this puzzle, it's extremely easy

[ChekeBello]

Great, I got spoiled since I remember this one from high school xD

[Naro Rivers]

I've seen this riddle before, but with slightly different details. In the version I heard, you get three questions, things don't scramble if you don't get the right answer (what does that even mean if you're the one asking the questions?).

The version I heard can be found in this video.

[RandomGeekNamedBrent]

I've seen this riddle before, but with slightly different details. In the version I heard, you get three questions, things don't scramble if you don't get the right answer (what does that even mean if you're the one asking the questions?).

Joey means if you don't correctly identify the random one after two questions, the next attempt all the roles are switched.

[jothki]

I don't think this is doable without invoking paradoxes, since the random head could mimic one of the other heads. The puzzle doesn't define what happens if a question is unanswerable, unless that's what the spears are for.

[Argent]

Spot could solve this one with punching.

[Macsen]

Sorry, I'm still laughing at the fact that Dallas wanted to be Lt. Barclay.

[John-056]

Spot could solve this one with punching.

Yeahhh... No. Joey pointed out that if one tries brute force, they'd get whomped by a Spiky wall, and if I follow the idea that the Temple adapts to Power users, it would mean that the Crushing Wall's spikes would be lined with Orphanite.

So that would mean that Spot would be in a Load of Pain, the Puzzle would be unsolved, and they'd be stuck until someone gets lucky. Frankly, as pointed out before, Peanut as Puzzle Master has no real power aside from Solving Puzzles easily, so unless he's got the passive ability to also learn to use Healing/Combat Spells and weapons quickly, then he's useless in a fight and is basically more the group Infiltrator/Hacker/Basically-The-Non-Fighter-with-Non-Combat-Skills-that-allow-access-to-free-weapons/spells/Method-To-Beat-Boss-with-Own-Weapon-or-Arena. (*Inhales* Ye Gods, that is a Mouthful.)

So while Peanut can Solve Puzzles, that's all he can do. Frankly, this feels a Little Deus Ex Machina-ish in my opinion, where the moment Peanut becomes Puzzle Master, a puzzle that requires him to solve it pops up out of nowhere. I understand why Pete made such a Security Feature, since Mana in the Wrong Hands, like Keene Milton's, can bring about the World's end, but for it to pop up just after Puzzle Master is Born? Feels rather sudden.

It would feel a lot better to have a ready up scene with Team GPMR before this panel, since it would let us adjust to Peanut as Puzzle Master, or have Tarot talk with Sabrina, Fox or Mungo about leaving Team PGMR behind without bothering to wake them up, give us a little look into how Tarot is feeling about leaving the weaker team RGPM behind to fend for themselves rather than jumping right to the current page with team JSDL.

(I'm deciding to try and use RWBY naming themes for the teams. Team Sandwich is constantly swapping the initials since they have no real established Leader, and the Spirits don't actually count as members, not to mention that I can't seem to get a good enough name for the teams. I mean, I can see Team Nerd as JSDL, since Joey's pretty much the leader, and he's likely biased for Squeak, and Team Tarot is TSMF/TSFM, since Tarot is obviously the leader of her group, Sabrina's her backup and Fox and Mungo fall into last place... Not to mention that the Big Guy/Girl's name normally falls into the last initial in RWBY name themes.)

[Bandit1990]

Well, it makes sense if you imagine that the temple is being run like a D&D adventure. Typically you build challenges to complement your player's skillsets.

[Obbl]

Spot could solve this one with punching.

"Solving puzzles is just punching with logic"

[Argent]

I'm deciding to try and use RWBY naming themes for the teams.

That's going to be REALLY confusing for people who barely know that there's a thing called RWBY.

Plus teams Sandwich/Nerds/Tarot are easily understood.

Spot could solve this one with punching.

Yeahhh... No. Joey pointed out that if one tries brute force, they'd get whomped by a Spiky wall, and if I follow the idea that the Temple adapts to Power users, it would mean that the Crushing Wall's spikes would be lined with Orphanite.

Punching and Spinning then.

[John-056]

Spin where? On the Spot? He'd just get Dizzy and even more hurt when the wall smacks him.

The Temple likely adapts quickly to prevent players from 'cheesing' it, and mere exposure to Orphanite knocks out Spot's powers, which, like I said before, would be lined on the Spikes, which would still knock out Spot's powers.

And last I checked again? Spot spinning to Time Travel? That's linked to his superpowers... Superpowers that are instantly nullified upon exposure to that Lumpy Grey Rock.

And I get ya. RWBY naming themes are difficult because of the fact that Team Sandvich has no leader, which is another nail in the Coffin for them since they don't have anyone able to give strategies and thus get themselves mauled in a fight like you want them to.

[Argent]

Spin where? On the Spot? He'd just get Dizzy and even more hurt when the wall smacks him.

Nah, he'd spin *before* punching, which would pull the spears back into time so they ended up in space back along Earth's orbit somewhere.

Also, the temple didn't stop Mungo cheating like a cheating cheater.

The other problem with RWBY naming schemes is I literally know nothing of them other than what I've glarked from your comment. I'd never heard of them before.

[Welsh Halfwit]

So while Peanut can Solve Puzzles, that's all he can do. Frankly, this feels a Little Deus Ex Machina-ish in my opinion, where the moment Peanut becomes Puzzle Master, a puzzle that requires him to solve it pops up out of nowhere. I understand why Pete made such a Security Feature, since Mana in the Wrong Hands, like Keene Milton's, can bring about the World's end, but for it to pop up just after Puzzle Master is Born? Feels rather sudden.)

Peanut has finally seen all the other competition and almost been killed by a puzzle. He's being smart and realised these puzzles need a solver. Might as well be him, no?

[CanzetYote]

Watch as Peanut pops up just in time to solve the puzzle.

[John-056]

Spin where? On the Spot? He'd just get Dizzy and even more hurt when the wall smacks him.

Nah, he'd spin *before* punching, which would pull the spears back into time so they ended up in space back along Earth's orbit somewhere.

You missed the whole point of what I said. Mere exposure to Orphanite takes away his Powers anyway, which was what Joey was looking at in the last panel. And spinning on the Spot before throwing the Punch? Remember what I said about his powers being linked? The SPIKES won't go back in time. And have you forgotten that this is a Temple made by a Celestial who hates Cheesing? How do we know this recent puzzle wasn't made because Tarot Squad (Hmm... I think that name would stick nicely) had Mungo fly over the previous one?

So while Peanut can Solve Puzzles, that's all he can do. Frankly, this feels a Little Deus Ex Machina-ish in my opinion, where the moment Peanut becomes Puzzle Master, a puzzle that requires him to solve it pops up out of nowhere. I understand why Pete made such a Security Feature, since Mana in the Wrong Hands, like Keene Milton's, can bring about the World's end, but for it to pop up just after Puzzle Master is Born? Feels rather sudden.

Peanut has finally seen all the other competition and almost been killed by a puzzle. He's being smart and realised these puzzles need a solver. Might as well be him, no?

That's not what I meant, Welsh. I was referring to how it just suddenly swaps over and shows off this O-So-Difficult Puzzle that the Nerds can't hack and that they only have two chances to figure out correctly, with the class they need to break it being abandoned by the leader of Tarot squad. I mean, couldn't it have had Sandwich Team first traverse the temple for at least one scene, then swap to Tarot and the nerds meeting up?

I'm just saying it just suddenly swapped to the problem that can be fixed by one person only, that the transaction was a bit too quick. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. Not really about Peanut becoming Puzzle Master.

[Argent]

And spinning on the Spot before throwing the Punch? Remember what I said about his powers being linked? The SPIKES won't go back in time.

You haven't read enough cheesy time travel stories. They will if you create a reflexive time vortex and *suck* them back into the past from the future just before they hit you... which is trivial for someone who has precise control over his spinning.

Panel 1: Spot starts spinning. Tarot looks confused.
Panel 2: Out of the spin right into punch. Tarot rushes everyone back.
Panel 3: SLAM!
Panel 4: walls retract. There is a spherical hole in them where the time-vortex hit. Spot is standing there buffing his claws on his chest.
Panel 5: inset: spears and rubble floating in space, the spears have little faces and question marks over their heads.

It's all in the wrist action.

[Cesco]

Looks a so hard riddle. At the end, it's all a matter of luck to get the correct head that's telling the correct answer... It's really hard, Tarot, right because made by Pete, don't try to consider it easier. Yep, we need the puzzle master for it. Eheh, Tarot will soon need to think totally different about her Peanut.

[Welsh Halfwit]

Anyone else wondering if '2 heads are better than 3' might refer to our heroes? There are three of them in the strip, after all.

[Istaran]

Puzzle is simple enough, actually.

Ask 'do you tell the truth?'.
Head that always tells the truth: yes (in the other language)
Head that always lies: yes (in the same other language, thus the same)
Head that is random: answers randomly.

If all three answer the same, repeat the question until one answers differently. That one is the random one. It doesn't matter if or how many times they swapped roles along the way. (There is a 75% chance you get it in the first two questions anyways.)

No need to differentiate between the honest one and the liar.

[Argent]

What about the spiked walls, Istaran?

[CHAOKOCartoons]

They've been stuck on this all morning? How? It' not terribly difficult even if they change it up or speak a different language, plus I feel like they'd probably get it accidentally at some point. How do the spiked walls work? Do they close in the more wrong guesses you have? Do they IMMEDIATELY try to crush you? Which walls? The difficulty spike in this puzzle is confusing

[ChekeBello]

Anyone else wondering if '2 heads are better than 3' might refer to our heroes? There are three of them in the strip, after all.

I think it refers to the case of only two entities; if you take out the random one, that version of the puzzle is easily solved with a single question.

Puzzle is simple enough, actually.

Ask 'do you tell the truth?'.
Head that always tells the truth: yes (in the other language)
Head that always lies: yes (in the same other language, thus the same)
Head that is random: answers randomly.

If all three answer the same, repeat the question until one answers differently. That one is the random one. It doesn't matter if or how many times they swapped roles along the way. (There is a 75% chance you get it in the first two questions anyways.)

No need to differentiate between the honest one and the liar.

But remember, we have only TWO questions, not three; that means that in the best scenario we get 2 heads answering differently, but we are unable to tell for certain which one is the random(since we can't get all three to answer the question)

Also...

What about the spiked walls, Istaran?

Argent point makes it look like their a punishment if fail too many times.

Edit: I do recall the 3 question solution, and those questions are not that hard, I know there's a complex 2 question solution but I'm not so sure how that one goes. Also usually the point is to figuring all 3 entities not just the random one, so I may be overlooking something.

[Sweetooth]

Puzzle is simple enough, actually.

Ask 'do you tell the truth?'.
Head that always tells the truth: yes (in the other language)
Head that always lies: yes (in the same other language, thus the same)
Head that is random: answers randomly.

If all three answer the same, repeat the question until one answers differently. That one is the random one. It doesn't matter if or how many times they swapped roles along the way. (There is a 75% chance you get it in the first two questions anyways.)

No need to differentiate between the honest one and the liar.

In this sort of riddle you're only allowed to ask individually, since you only have 2 questions, asking them directly will not let you know the answer of the third. Getting the wrong answer could be fatal, leaving it at chance isn't a good idea, we don't know if they have already tried, just that they know the rules, likely written next to the puzzle
Nevertheless the answer is still pretty simple: ask them something they can't give a answer neither honestly nor with a lie, ask two of them, if neither can answer then the third is the random, if one of them answers then that's the random. That is unless as jothki pointed out there's a penalty for questions that they can't answer

[CHAOKOCartoons]

Wait so it's one question per head or ask a question and they all give an answer? If it's the first option it's way harder than I initially thought, though if the spike walls are the punishment then how did they even get to figure out the pattern unless the walls were avoidable?

[Naro Rivers]

Wait so it's one question per head or ask a question and they all give an answer? If it's the first option it's way harder than I initially thought, though if the spike walls are the punishment then how did they even get to figure out the pattern unless the walls were avoidable?

In this type of riddle, you only ask one entity at a time.

Joey did say he thinks there are also spike walls, implying that he doesn't know for sure.

[Istaran]

We aren't given clear rules on the spiked walls, but typically spiked walls are known for closing in over time and giving time pressure to solve the puzzle. So you can't spend as much time as you want puzzling out your ultimate solution.

The Order of the Stick version had both of the two guards answering every inquiry, but obviously there are variations. We aren't told whether all answer or you need to ask each one. We do know that there isn't a total max of two question/answers: instead after every second question if you don't correctly identify the right head the heads rerandomize their roles.

So, modified for the assumption only one will answer each question:
It becomes impossible then to solve in two questions, simply not enough data points, but my approach still works with some modification.

Ask two different heads 'do you answer truthfully'. If they answer the same, the word they speak means 'yes'. Otherwise, guess one. If you are right, you win! If you are wrong, the one you guessed said 'yes'. If they answered the same, guess the third head.

If you haven't won, they re-randomize, and probably the spiked walls begin coming your way, so you need to proceed quickly. But now you know the word for yes. Ask two heads if they answer truthfully. If they answer differently, the one that said 'no' is the random one, you win! If not, guess the other one. Odds are good that it's the random one.

Repeat quickly until you win! Hurry before the spikes get you!

[Istaran]

By my math, my suggestion in the last post has a 50% chance of guessing correctly after the first pair of questions. After each pair of questions thereafter, there's a 33% chance of getting a guaranteed win, and a 50% chance of getting it right otherwise (overall 66% chance of getting it right per pair).

If anyone can get better odds than that, I'd be interested to hear it.

[Sweetooth]

By my math, my suggestion in the last post has a 50% chance of guessing correctly after the first pair of questions. After each pair of questions thereafter, there's a 33% chance of getting a guaranteed win, and a 50% chance of getting it right otherwise (overall 66% chance of getting it right per pair).

If anyone can get better odds than that, I'd be interested to hear it.

100% here

Ask the middle idol "if I ask the idol to the left if there's a mouse on my head, will it tell me the truth?" if the idol doesn't answer then the idol on the left is the random, if it answers then ask the idol on the right about the idol in the middle, if it doesn't answer then the middle is random, if it answers then the one on the right is the random
An idol can't answer if you ask them about the random idol because it doesn't know if it will tell truth or lie
An idol can answer if it answers randomly or the idol to the left of that idol tells the truth or a lie
something like this:
idols= Truth Liar Random answer=X
TLR
-XX
LTR
-XX
TRL
-X?
LRT
-X?
RTL
-?X
RLT
-?X

[Naro Rivers]

By my math, my suggestion in the last post has a 50% chance of guessing correctly after the first pair of questions. After each pair of questions thereafter, there's a 33% chance of getting a guaranteed win, and a 50% chance of getting it right otherwise (overall 66% chance of getting it right per pair).

If anyone can get better odds than that, I'd be interested to hear it.

100% here

Ask the middle idol "if I ask the idol to the left if there's a mouse on my head, will it tell me the truth?" if the idol doesn't answer then the idol on the left is the random, if it answers then ask the idol on the right about the idol in the middle, if it doesn't answer then the middle is random, if it answers then the one on the right is the random
An idol can't answer if you ask them about the random idol because it doesn't know if it will tell truth or lie
An idol can answer if it answers randomly or the idol to the left of that idol tells the truth or a lie
something like this:
idols= Truth Liar Random answer=X
TLR
-XX
LTR
-XX
TRL
-X?
LRT
-X?
RTL
-?X
RLT
-?X

That's a very sound solution. Let's hope the characters can figure it out.

[Douglas Collier]

The problem is you can’t understand what each idol is saying. And I think they’re required to answer with something.

[Buster]

By my math, my suggestion in the last post has a 50% chance of guessing correctly after the first pair of questions. After each pair of questions thereafter, there's a 33% chance of getting a guaranteed win, and a 50% chance of getting it right otherwise (overall 66% chance of getting it right per pair).

If anyone can get better odds than that, I'd be interested to hear it.

100% here

Ask the middle idol "if I ask the idol to the left if there's a mouse on my head, will it tell me the truth?" if the idol doesn't answer then the idol on the left is the random, if it answers then ask the idol on the right about the idol in the middle, if it doesn't answer then the middle is random, if it answers then the one on the right is the random
An idol can't answer if you ask them about the random idol because it doesn't know if it will tell truth or lie
An idol can answer if it answers randomly or the idol to the left of that idol tells the truth or a lie
something like this:
idols= Truth Liar Random answer=X
TLR
-XX
LTR
-XX
TRL
-X?
LRT
-X?
RTL
-?X
RLT
-?X

That solution only works if the objective is to identify the random head. If you need to identify all three, or get some key piece of info from them it falls short.