2019/04/05 - Sting Stinger

[HundKatzeMaus]

Personally, I don't think he's actually going to end up arrested. Like everyone's said, Ralph and the K-9s would be way out of line for that. But, if that is how this going to end, I find it hard to believe that Keene wouldn't end up just a little embittered over it.

I think it would be more likely that he ends up learning that he can't do everything he wanted as a normal citizen instead of becoming a villain.
Holding a grudge, yes, but not a villain.
The closest thing he really got to became a villain was during temple crashers 2 when he wanted to do everything to archieve his goal, but he snapped himself out of it when Breel was in danger. So I would say he is good. Even if Keene somehow ends up as a villain (which I doubt) I don't think this event will lead to it.

[NHWestoN]

Gonna have a heck of a time getting that piece of evidence into a court room. And if the judge and jury get into the spa, you're not getting a guilty verdict, Sarge.

[Champion Wallace]

Gosh, seeing all this hating on Ralph makes me better understand how Dissension feels as a Bino fan.

[IceKitsune]

Gosh, seeing all this hating on Ralph makes me better understand how Dissension feels as a Bino fan.

I don't think anyone really hates Ralph, but they are mostly pointing out that what he is doing seems to be a bit overboard. I mean it really looks like he is arresting Sabrina who has done absolutely nothing wrong, and is going to arrest Keene who should really only have to deal with a fine at worst for the day or two he had the spa there.

[fenrirblack]

Ralph would be better if he actually did his job like he's supposed to. He was fine back during the "real stories of the K9-PD" and he actually was a confident officer. He was fun during the aztec gold incident. This entire fiasco has made him come off as an incompetent stooge who doesn't know how to handle delicate situations. I guess you could say Ralph has never been the best when it came to actually interacting with others. He's not Bino level terrible but he has a way of coming off as a tool. He's a lot like Chief Bogo from Zootopia. When push comes to shove he does the right thing. It's not his fault we have no real clue what is happening with Sabrina like is she being handcuffed or trying to sneak away. Either way the handcuffs do not do him any favors.

[Amazee Dayzee]

From what Ralph said at the beginning of the arc, it seems that Keene sort of breaks laws whether willingly or not and flaunts his power or gets one up over the K-9 Unit to get off. If that is the case, I do hope Keene does pay in some way. Here is hoping having a boyfriend will humble him.

[fenrirblack]

Ralph did want to "detain" him so Keene will have to pay the fine. Why the theatrics is the real question? Slap Keene with a fine and he'll pay it, why Ralph thought Keene could get away with it just by "weaseling out of it" (which I'm assuming literally means running away in this context) another question. On a similar subject Ralph has always has had a history of escalating situations.

[Amazee Dayzee]

If anything, Ralph needs a retreat to learn how to STOP doing that.

[leinglo]

It's kind of funny, actually. Ralph grilled Fox big-time for not following procedure and overstepping his bounds back in "real stories of the K9-PD," but that's kind of exactly what he's doing here. Ralph needs a bit of a metaphorical swat to the nose himself.

[Obbl]

It's just that there's a happy middle area between "Ralph is playing hard ball a bit too hard" or "Ralph is over-stepping procedure" and "Ralph is literally incompetent" or "We need an answer for Ralph's behavior". If those last two are your must-share take-aways from this arc (arc of arcs?) then please consider not.
Quite honestly, there's a lot of "character made a mistake" or "character is not taking the best course of action" being built up into "character is making me strongly dislike them" or "character used to be good, but now they are bad" that has always existed and perplexed me on this forum. It's hyperbolic, puts others on the defensive, and has never contributed anything good to the forum. If character is doing something wrong, feel free to comment on it, but please remember to keep things in the proper perspective.

[leinglo]

Honestly, it's kinda hard to dislike Ralph personally, mostly because he's never really been focused on, his character hasn't really been developed all that much. We know him as the K9-PD sergeant, and that's pretty much it. The vast majority of his appearances have been just usual police business. When Ralph talked with Fox back in "real stories of the K9-PD," that was the biggest "character" moment he's ever had, and I think it established him as being a smart and competent sergeant. The big reaction here, I think, is because his handling of the spa situation kinda flies in the face of that earlier impression, and we don't really know what to make of it. It started with impounding the spa truck. Okay. Then it upgraded to attempting to detain Keene. That's a little much. Then it upgraded to Ralph talking about bringing the paddy wagon in with the intent, as this latest page seems to suggest, of arresting everybody. What? Not much about this situation makes sense, and it's confusing more than anything else. Which always leads to a lot of speculation.

At least for me. I can't speak for others.

[Obbl]

Confusion is totally fine though. We don't know what Ralph is attempting to do here. Him trying to arrest everybody would seem to fly in the face of what we know about Ralph (a solid clue that that isn't going to happen, but I digress). But there's not a need to defend people's jumping to the extreme conclusions that I mentioned. They've been brought up enough times now that I'm pointing them out in my capacity as moderator and asking that they be toned down. That's it. Continue to speculate away, just be aware that being overly judgmental of the characters creates an atmosphere that is counter to the one we would like to foster.

[NHWestoN]

My experience with Housepets is that patience answers a lot of questions and tempers many indignations. Patience is also not much fun.

Maybe the handcuffs are for Sabrina and Fido .... or Duchess and Bino. Or not.

[HundKatzeMaus]

I also would like to say that we did got more of Ralph's characterization aside from "the competent cop".
It's just some of them were really subtle.
For one, he didn't care with who Fido was together with a cat. Even told Fido after the Jata-thing that Fido should trust his teammates and friends (sure in his own Ralph-way, also yes I'm sure they're also friends with each other) so we know Ralph is loyal to his friends and really tolerant.

Aside from interactions with Kevin (who drives Ralph really nuts at times) he is most of the time super calm, I think this should count a bit for more than just "he is a competent cop", yes it helps him to be competent, but it should still count as a character trait of who is overall not just as a police dog.

Seeing how Ralph reacted to the report Sasha filled out for Kevin, he seemed to be appalled by the sheer girliness the report was oozing. Sure you could make the point he just didn't liked how an official police report was filled (and I also think that's partly the reason), but just look at his face that's the face of someone who might say "Eeww girls have cooties" or something like that

Even if was just one time, but we know Ralph isn't above cracking some jokes here and there, even if it's during duty.

Seeing how he tried to educate some pups during housepets babies could be an indicator that he is friendly with puppies.
I don't think it was just for the sake of his duty, because if he wasn't I'm sure they would had send someone else. I could even imagine he did it for his own free will.

I think it's easy to say Ralph does have a solid characterization, more than just "competent" cop.

Edit:Also in many comic strips we saw him as a reasonable authority figure, so I'm sure we will get a satisfying answer for his actons.

Another question is:
What rights do pets have?
We know they don't have as many rights as humans and a big part of Keene's life was to change it, even with drastic methods.
So we know pets don't have as many rights as humans, so maybe for the housepets world what Ralph is doing is legit and not at all illegal?
I didn't saw that questioned by someone else here and if I overlooked it, I apologize.
It just feels a lot of us didn't really thought more about it aside from "it's somehow Ralph's fault."

[Amazee Dayzee]

I'm not one of them. I'm just thinking Ralph is doing his job and also Keene has ways of getting out of any type of trouble he might be in even if it is a fine and if I was Ralph, I would be sort of sick of it also.

I guess you can say I am rooting for Ralph.

[GameCobra]

I'm not one of them. I'm just thinking Ralph is doing his job and also Keene has ways of getting out of any type of trouble he might be in even if it is a fine and if I was Ralph, I would be sort of sick of it also.

I guess you can say I am rooting for Ralph.

Oh, he's doing his job. I just think he's taking it too far, that's all. x3

Ralph has his position for a reason, but what i was always curious about is the extent that the K-9's can go with their rights to arrest people? This doesn't seem like one of them.

Reading up on it a bit, I don't think Parking violations are a reason to arrest the passengers. Though it could be possible that Keene has a history of parking violations that aren't paid x3

[fenrirblack]

Stepping away from Ralph, I wanted to touch on what Keene said about "animals having nice things." If Keene's serious about that then instead of opening a spa in the middle of the neighborhood, why doesn't he actually open a business(es) for animals to work at? He wants to create a monument then do it. Seriously, so far it seems that the jobs that the animals are getting are being fostered by the Milton's but why doesn't he actually start his own business for animals run by animals? That way all animals can have a nice place to work and live. He hired the wolves before but they were let go but that was because they were still living in this bubble of the Milton's own creation. There is a middle ground where the animals can work, interact with human society, and still have the protection of the Milton's money.

[Gameb18oy]

Stepping away from Ralph, I wanted to touch on what Keene said about "animals having nice things." If Keene's serious about that then instead of opening a spa in the middle of the neighborhood, why doesn't he actually open a business(es) for animals to work at? He wants to create a monument then do it. Seriously, so far it seems that the jobs that the animals are getting are being fostered by the Milton's but why doesn't he actually start his own business for animals run by animals? That way all animals can have a nice place to work and live. He hired the wolves before but they were let go but that was because they were still living in this bubble of the Milton's own creation. There is a middle ground where the animals can work, interact with human society, and still have the protection of the Milton's money.

Because Keene’s smart, and realizes if animals are only working under him, they aren’t really getting fully integrated into society. They have to be working with the humans as equals, or it won’t mean anything. On other note though, I am gonna be really surprised if Rick never gives the regular pets jobs, I’m really really hoping he’s aware of the push for and likes the idea of a cat joining the police, and it being Max he uses for the Feline unit

[fenrirblack]

Animals need a place to start. The wolves started working by working under Keene. It’s how they get experience and learn about human society without being tossed into the deep end and being told good luck. We’ve seen time and again how most ferals are pretty ignorant. Plus humans needs just as much adjustment to the situation as the animals. We don’t se it but I can’t imagine too many humans were thrilled to have to interact with wolves or have them cook their food.

[HundKatzeMaus]

Actually what I could think would help much more instead of just making sure pets can have jobs (which they already can have, but don't have to) is also the right of living alone on their own just like humans do. Which is a much better example of what the wolves do. Sure they have jobs, but that is not all. It was shown they also have to follow the law and can be held responsible for it. The big problem also was, the wolves had to get papers to still count as "pets". Weirdly enough they had to be Keene's pets, but Keene and the other ferrets have some sort of special status that not many pets have, kinda like Jata had a special position as a prince.

While the wolves did work under Keene, it was just because of certain special circumstances again.
It also wouldn't really fit with Mr. Milton's dream, who wanted pets and humans to be truly equal, not because some rich guy always helps them out.
But if said rich guy is gone or pulls his money away, the pets would also loose all their rights. What he (and Keene and the other ferrets) want to archieve is pets being equal to humans permanently and not just for the time when someone is backing them up.

What would actually help is something like making someone like Sasha getting emancipated and independed from any owner.
Having some pets really living on their own.
Another problems are also laws, pets don't seem to have the same rights as humans so even if Keene suddenly opens a business in which pets only work, would that violate any laws or something?
If it was that easy, then temple crasher 2 would had never happened, since he wanted to use the mana to change the world.
Before that he could even nearly killed, because he tried to get equal rights for pets.

So it's much more than "we need a working place for pets"

I'm also wondering how much the pets themselves want those equal rights. Fox for example was happy at first that he didn't need to work unlike his dad and just joined the K9, because of personal reasons. I could imagine some pets prefer just being pets.

[fenrirblack]

Actually what I could think would help much more instead of just making sure pets can have jobs (which they already can have, but don't have to) is also the right of living alone on their own just like humans do. Which is a much better example of what the wolves do. Sure they have jobs, but that is not all. It was shown they also have to follow the law and can be held responsible for it. The big problem also was, the wolves had to get papers to still count as "pets". Weirdly enough they had to be Keene's pets, but Keene and the other ferrets have some sort of special status that not many pets have, kinda like Jata had a special position as a prince.

While the wolves did work under Keene, it was just because of certain special circumstances again.
It also wouldn't really fit with Mr. Milton's dream, who wanted pets and humans to be truly equal, not because some rich guy always helps them out.
But if said rich guy is gone or pulls his money away, the pets would also loose all their rights. What he (and Keene and the other ferrets) want to archieve is pets being equal to humans permanently and not just for the time when someone is backing them up.

Keene strives to change the laws but the problem is that change takes time. Humans have to see that animals can adapt and live in human society which is what Keene is trying to do on a small scale because A. The wolves are technically obligated to and B. Because wolves like Miles and Gale want to. Animals would have to register as legal citizens to acquire the same rights as a regular human like with a citizen test along with the GOE.

What would actually help is something like making someone like Sasha getting emancipated and independed from any owner.
Having some pets really living on their own.
Another problems are also laws, pets don't seem to have the same rights as humans so even if Keene suddenly opens a business in which pets only work, would that violate any laws or something?
If it was that easy, then temple crasher 2 would had never happened, since he wanted to use the mana to change the world.
Before that he could even nearly killed, because he tried to get equal rights for pets.

So it's much more than "we need a working place for pets"

It’s a very slow process which was the main reason Keene wanted divine intervention in the first place. If Sasha could become independent would be a big step for the future. Yes, the laws would have to change but again there are several sides to this. To get lawmakers on board with changing laws they have to see animals as more than feral creatures. Think about it like this, pets earn money therefore pay taxes and they have a little more pull and one could argue that they more rights to equal citizenship. They needs jobs to get a job and integrate into society. Keene can’t hold their hands forever but at the same time clearly they can’t just walk out of the woods, into a store and expect to be hired anymore than they can expect to find a place to live.

I'm also wondering how much the pets themselves want those equal rights. Fox for example was happy at first that he didn't need to work unlike his dad and just joined the K9, because of personal reasons. I could imagine some pets prefer just being pets.

Pets independence would essentially follow human standards. In other words I would say it follows a similar method as when you turn 18 and you’re an adult. They can choose after a certain point whether or not they want to be a “pet” just like one can choose to put down on a tax form whether or not you are independent or let your parent account you as a dependent.

[Champion Wallace]

On a similar subject Ralph has always has had a history of escalating situations.

I think that falls under the same category of Tarot prioritizing being a good girlfriend less when the fate of the world is at stake. Arresting everyone sounds extreme, but remember the context. US citizens were about to physically fight a nation's crown prince on their territory (remember, Milton manner was acting embassy so it was legally considered Feragan territory and animals aren't considered pets under Feraga's anti-slavery laws).

I'm not one of them. I'm just thinking Ralph is doing his job and also Keene has ways of getting out of any type of trouble he might be in even if it is a fine and if I was Ralph, I would be sort of sick of it also.

I guess you can say I am rooting for Ralph.

Based on Keene's reaction to property tax and even a different fine, it wouldn't be a bad idea to take precautions against him doing everything in his power to avoid paying.

Stepping away from Ralph, I wanted to touch on what Keene said about "animals having nice things." If Keene's serious about that then instead of opening a spa in the middle of the neighborhood, why doesn't he actually open a business(es) for animals to work at? He wants to create a monument then do it. Seriously, so far it seems that the jobs that the animals are getting are being fostered by the Milton's but why doesn't he actually start his own business for animals run by animals? That way all animals can have a nice place to work and live. He hired the wolves before but they were let go but that was because they were still living in this bubble of the Milton's own creation. There is a middle ground where the animals can work, interact with human society, and still have the protection of the Milton's money.

My understanding is the biggest hurdle for human animal equality is not preparing animals for human roles (though that's certainly not nothing), but instead getting humans to accept animals as equals. The way they're doing that is by having animals employed by humans to maximize (positive) human-animal interactions.

Ralph has his position for a reason, but what i was always curious about is the extent that the K-9's can go with their rights to arrest people? This doesn't seem like one of them.

Sir, under the ruling of Terryson v. Florida, police dogs are permitted to give the miranda. It's not explicit about it, but that would seem to imply they can arrest people too. Additionally, Ralph tried to arrest everybody back in Jungle Fever so that would indicate he has the authority.

I'm also wondering how much the pets themselves want those equal rights. Fox for example was happy at first that he didn't need to work unlike his dad and just joined the K9, because of personal reasons. I could imagine some pets prefer just being pets.

I think this doesn't get brought up enough.

[Gameb18oy]

And some of them likely would prefer to have a role away from that, even if they’d never outright say it as they aren’t miserable with how life is. Take the Bigglesworths as an example, they don’t seem to mind too much the confusion their name and appearances cause, but I have a feeling they’d love a job as it would give people something to tell them apart, and while sometimes they have fun with that confusion, at other times I’m sure they’d like to be seen as individuals. Having a uniform or something distinctive to each of them could be that thing

[Myrra]

I hope this comic implies that we get another arc with the ferals! perhaps giving them better homes?

[fenrirblack]

On a similar subject Ralph has always has had a history of escalating situations.

I think that falls under the same category of Tarot prioritizing being a good girlfriend less when the fate of the world is at stake. Arresting everyone sounds extreme, but remember the context. US citizens were about to physically fight a nation's crown prince on their territory (remember, Milton manner was acting embassy so it was legally considered Feragan territory and animals aren't considered pets under Feraga's anti-slavery laws).

But remember they weren't technically US citizens in the first place which is why they got away with beating Jata up.

Stepping away from Ralph, I wanted to touch on what Keene said about "animals having nice things." If Keene's serious about that then instead of opening a spa in the middle of the neighborhood, why doesn't he actually open a business(es) for animals to work at? He wants to create a monument then do it. Seriously, so far it seems that the jobs that the animals are getting are being fostered by the Milton's but why doesn't he actually start his own business for animals run by animals? That way all animals can have a nice place to work and live. He hired the wolves before but they were let go but that was because they were still living in this bubble of the Milton's own creation at the mansion and the only real human interaction they had was with Jeeves. There is a middle ground where the animals can work, interact with human society, and still have the protection of the Milton's money.

My understanding is the biggest hurdle for human animal equality is not preparing animals for human roles (though that's certainly not nothing), but instead getting humans to accept animals as equals. The way they're doing that is by having animals employed by humans to maximize (positive) human-animal interactions.

It's not really about being employed by humans but having those positive human interactions that is the real point. It doesn't matter who the animals are working for or where as much as they are interacting with humans and doing human things. They work in a store with human co-workers and human patrons therefore creating human interactions. When the wolves were working directly for Keene they were living in a bubble. I'm more suggesting that Keene open a business(es) that caters to all manner of clientele to create human-animal interactions while simultaneously teaching animals work skills, adopting human customs, and to a lesser extent build a lasting monument to Animal Rights. Here's an example of what I was thinking. Have you ever been to a neighborhood that has it's own market with shops or an open shopping area that has apartments above the stores. That is more what I was thinking about. Places for the animals to live on their own while working with humans while humans actually bought stuff. Another way to look at it would be like Theme Park World or really Disney World. The cast members live under the park. Keene could do something like that or not because that's a dumb idea but you get the point.

I'm also wondering how much the pets themselves want those equal rights. Fox for example was happy at first that he didn't need to work unlike his dad and just joined the K9, because of personal reasons. I could imagine some pets prefer just being pets.

I think this doesn't get brought up enough.

Honestly I hate to be the one to say this It never mattered if they had a choice. Equal or not they are going to get what the humans believe is best for the animals or themselves so the right for pets to choose to be "pets" or not doesn't matter. It's a nice pipe dream to have the pet's choose to remain as "pets" and for things to stay the same as they are now but if I'm being real here, there is no equal ground. Animals get equal rights as humans they essentially have two options. You don't want to live by societies rules then live in the wild. Being a pet in this situation would be essentially being a minor, once you turn a certain age that's it, status voided. But Given it is a fictional world and Rick could be nice and give them a choice but that depends on his thoughts about the entire subject.

[Obbl]

Anything is possible! Even now a human could theoretically make themself the pet of another. It'd just take a lot of paperwork. I imagine it wouldn't be out of the question to allow pets to become and then remain pets under many circumstances and become emancipated under another suite of circumstances. Do you just think people wouldn't go for such an open arrangement?

[Amazee Dayzee]

People can be very diverse in their opinions when you come down to it. I think some might be for it and others might be against it.

[NHWestoN]

It's the Twenty-First century! Why not?

[Champion Wallace]

On a similar subject Ralph has always has had a history of escalating situations.

I think that falls under the same category of Tarot prioritizing being a good girlfriend less when the fate of the world is at stake. Arresting everyone sounds extreme, but remember the context. US citizens were about to physically fight a nation's crown prince on their territory (remember, Milton manner was acting embassy so it was legally considered Feragan territory and animals aren't considered pets under Feraga's anti-slavery laws).

But remember they weren't technically US citizens in the first place which is why they got away with beating Jata up.

In the end, yes, but Ralph may not have known the legal situation with the wolfs at the time. Regardless, it's still not usually a good idea as a officer of the law to sit by as a group of people announce they're going to try to beat someone up. Additionally, even if their exempt from US law, they couldn't be sure there would be not Feragan retribution (even something as abstract as sundering Feraga-US relations).

I'm also wondering how much the pets themselves want those equal rights. Fox for example was happy at first that he didn't need to work unlike his dad and just joined the K9, because of personal reasons. I could imagine some pets prefer just being pets.

I think this doesn't get brought up enough.

Honestly I hate to be the one to say this It never mattered if they had a choice. Equal or not they are going to get what the humans believe is best for the animals or themselves so the right for pets to choose to be "pets" or not doesn't matter. It's a nice pipe dream to have the pet's choose to remain as "pets" and for things to stay the same as they are now but if I'm being real here, there is no equal ground. Animals get equal rights as humans they essentially have two options. You don't want to live by societies rules then live in the wild. Being a pet in this situation would be essentially being a minor, once you turn a certain age that's it, status voided. But Given it is a fictional world and Rick could be nice and give them a choice but that depends on his thoughts about the entire subject.

See, it's attitudes like that that garnish resistance and bring the quest for equality closer to PETA. Take Sasha for example. If Lana came to Sasha saying "the ECP needs more case laws in its favor so we need you to testify against against your owner. If all goes according to plan, we'll separate from Daddy whom you love as well as from your home and all its amenities and force you to get a human job in this economy so you don't starve.", Sasha probably won't be very cooperative.

[fenrirblack]

Still isn't that what Kevin was essentially trying to do anyway? His goal was to get Sasha away from Mr. Hartford and possibly on her own and she would have to fend for herself.

I don't even know what I was thinking before. I guess I was overcomplicating it in my own head and I just snapped. All I wanted was for Keene to open a chain of businesses for the animals to work at without prejudices.

The best thing we can hope for would be something like what I mentioned before. Animals get equal rights and whether they are "pets" or not but it comes down to their dependence on their owners.Thinking about this clearly the difference between being a "pet" and not is like being independent or living with your parents. A "pet" is really not even a term on paper but a way of life. No one should expect a pet to get their independence or equal rights then automatically be kicked out of their homes and forced to work. I think that is the best solution we can hope for. It isn't about papers or words but lifestyle. The right to choose to strike on their own or continue to live with their owners if their owners are willing. Forcing an animal to get a job isn't a good solution but giving them the choice to decide what they want and giving them the opportunity. We need to treat them as humans which really boils down to how they are treated by their owners or in this case parents.

[NHWestoN]

Well, we never got the backstory on how Sasha came to belong to Hartford and why she remained so deeply devoted to her "Daddy" despite his persistent neglect. Now, we also have no idea of how she transitioned from being devoted pet to seeking emancipation under Kevin's manly patronage. Daisy does hint at Sasha's becoming discontented in her testimony to Fox and Mungo when they interviewed her about Sasha's disappearance but that's about it.

Maybe another arc …………… or not.

Sasha, however, will have no problem earning her own living. She's a very talented musician and songstress.

[Amazee Dayzee]

Although it was never outright stated, it is believed that her father only adopted her because he wanted to use her to get women to go out with. As for why she remained so devoted, well in some child abuse cases the child still does remain loyal to the parent especially if the abuse is just neglect and anger rather than actual physical abuse. As for why she ended up wanting to be emancipated, I'm sure it probably has a lot to do with her father thinking that he was sending her to an obedience school (why I don't know as she does seem really obedient) and them brainwashing her into taking the fall for murdering Keene. I can see someone with as big of an ego as Hartford not taking that well and blaming it on Sasha and maybe Kevin who like Sasha and Daisy isn't as dumb as he looks picked up on that.

As for talented musician, maybe with an instrument. Based on how she butchered "Auld Lang Syne" 3 years ago, I wouldn't hold out much hope of her being a singer.

[Argent]

If Keene actually ends up arrested over this, I think we're facing the risk of him becoming an actual super villain.

Keene has been pretty much "actually a super villain" for most of the strip, in the Mr Burns style where everyone knows he's the bad guy but he's too rich to get into trouble for it. There was the Jata incident, and the water war, and all the temple arcs. He's been moving away from that and getting more grounded since Breel returned.

[Amazee Dayzee]

Breel returned? Where did he go in the first place?

But seriously, I do hope that Keene doesn't pull a Mr. Burns and faces up to the consequences and admit he probably should have moved the spa.