Non HPU: Beacon Of Hope OOC

[~\Rook/~]

There's a tidbit of the upcoming character! (Sorry, I couldn't wait..)

[dusk]

No, they seem pretty cool.

[CyberDragon]

Well, shoot. It seems I was waiting for a post that was never going to get there. I'll start working on the "start of day 3" post right after dinner.

EDIT: New day has started.

[CyberDragon]

Umm, guys? Y'all know everyone is meeting in the briefing room, right? Not the cafeteria? Ulrich just took his breakfast to the meeting.

[Legotron123]

I thought there was still enough time before the meeting started to eat in the cafeteria. I guess I can change it if you’d like.

[CyberDragon]

Yes please. There are a bunch of inconsistencies popping up. Half the team went to the briefing room, half went to the cafeteria, and people going to the cafeteria are acting like the people in the briefing room are there. I feel like people don't know where everyone else is. Even I'm getting confused. Where is everyone right now?

[Legotron123]

K, I altered mine. Also took the opportunity to add a few things too it.

[Buster]

I'll have my lot up and running later today, sorry about the inactivity.

Got a few games for my Switch in December and I've been a wee bit obsessive about them since...

Now if you'l excuse me, Lynels aren't going to hunt themselves.

[CyberDragon]

Believe me Buster, I know that feeling. Got Assassin's Creed Origins for Christmas and I've been playing it every day.

[Legotron123]

“Pro-Union Despot?” I think you mistyped something there, because a despot, a ruler or other person who holds absolute power, typically one who exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way, doesn’t tend to approve of workers banding together to demand better treatment.

[CyberDragon]

"Union" refers to anything that is united. In this case, it's all of the Earth colonies under a central alliance or government. The despot supported the unity of the colonies, yet was no less cruel. However, because he was "friendly" to the idea of unified colonies and the general wasn't, preferring the idea of the colony being independent, the government sent Gear after the general. if someone has a better word for it, then I'll change it.

Edit: changed it.

[Buster]

Any form of facist despotic or tyrannical leader favoring unification with larger powers makes little sense though, as it means giving up a significant portion of their power. Outside fiction it only happens when a small nation is caught in the crossfire between two big nations and needs the aid of one because of the other. Cold war era stuff.

[CyberDragon]

It does if he isn't a full dictator. Difference between a dictator and a despot is that a dictator is a type of leader that has absolute power while a despot is someone who whether they have total power or not still exert tyrannical rule over those they do have power over. I'm pretty sure that, historically, there have been many leaders who didn't have complete power who still were cruel to the people using the power they had. I'm not a history major. I can think of a few, but I don't know their names.

In this case, the tyrant was appointed to that position because he supported unity of the colonies and was friendly toward the central Earth-based government (I don't have a name for it. United Planets sounds stupid to me). So much so, that he would consider anyone who wanted the colony to be independent, or who opposed the Earth-based government, to be traitors. Though he doesn't have total power, why should the Earth colony government do anything to stop him if the people he's oppressing oppose them.

[Serence Frostbite]

(I don't have a name for it. United Planets sounds stupid to me)

the old "Galactic Union/Empire/Federation" never fail fiction writers before

[Buster]

Given BOH's different point cap and power system to Steelhaven, I suppose the following changes will need to be applied. (reconnected explanation, she's recovered most of the cryo-freeze trauma. it was that or put 7 points into power)

Epsilon's Character type:
Minor, may be unsuitable for recruitment.

Why she's unsuitable: Much like her inspirations (Khan Singh to a lesser degree, Locutus, Sharkface) She's a 'determinator' type character with little in the way of remorse or empathy towards others. Picture Sharkface's last words of, "You can break me, burn me, bury me alive; but as long as I'm still breathing it will never be over. I will hunt you. I will burn you. As long as I'm alive, you're all as good as dead." coming from someone as cold and dispassionate as a Pre-retcon Borg, and you have a good idea.

Epsilon's Powers:
(STR/AGI) Enhanced Condition - Mild, not that far above normal. Mostly effects Strength and land speed.
(PER) Mechanically augmented vision - anything she sees is digitally saved, can be enhanced in real time, and downloaded later via the port behind her eye. Basically, if she's seen it, you have it and a dozen filtered variants of it, in ultra-high res on camera.
(PER/AGI) Biomechanically Augmented reflexes - She's been trained to reflexively respond to tactile stimuli associated with hand-to-hand combat, her thought-to-action reaction time is 50ms regardless of which sense is supplying the input, and hand-eye coordination is 1:1.
Subdermal armor - as long as her implants receive regular maintenance, she's bulletproof. wear and tear WILL degrade this though.
Constant pain - this is both a strength and a weakness. Her augmentations hurt, constantly, like a raw nerve. it never goes away. but, she's gotten used to it and pain of any kind no longer slows her down.

Epsilon's new Special Stats:
10 10 7 2 6 7 5 (2)

[CyberDragon]

Sounds good, Buster. Thanks!

(I don't have a name for it. United Planets sounds stupid to me)

the old "Galactic Union/Empire/Federation" never fail fiction writers before

Hmm... Galactic Union could do, but that sounds like it includes groups beyond the human colonies. The government Gear worked for was specifically the Terrestrial Union and I just figured out a good name.

[Welsh Halfwit]

the Calico m-950 does exist. http://www.military-today.com/firearms/calico_m950.jpg It's a unique firearm with 100 rounds capacity. They don't do Armour piercing in RL though.

[Buster]

Ugh... here we go. This is an absurdly common worldbuilding mistake. Short version: paralell history is a falacy spawned from Hollywood's chronic lazy writing and should not be imitated, ancient powers tend to be MORE disruptive than recent not less, and modern ways of thinking can't be applied to ancient societies.

Two problems CD, firstly, by the means to fight them, Talya wasn't referring to weapons or angelic counterparts, but the mental dicipline to block out the base petty desires they prey on. Aggression is primal, it comes naturally to us as a species that evolved from a territorial omivore. It's a miswired repurposing of a survival trait we no longer need but haven't lost. Dicipline, morality, codes of honor, law, those are social constructs. The mere fact that how we interpert them isn't universal tells us that they are something we created, not something that's inherent to us.

Secondly, a counterforce does not preclude collateral damage. This battle would have been raging on throughout history, and for good or ill it should have shaped society, as avatars would logically arrise in the wake of every major war, disaster, conflict, you name it. The history of this Earth should be radicaly different from ours, even just by evolution making avoidance of aggression a survival trait. yet we've seen no indication of that, in fact we've seen the opposite via gear's backstory.

[CyberDragon]

Dicipline, morality, codes of honor, and law are social constructs. However, those are not aspects. Love for example, which is an aspect, is something inherent to us as well. Not all of our base instincts are bad or selfish ones. We can't live without other people. We developed as a social species. As such, many of our instincts are pro-social. And I didn't say there wasn't collateral damage. However, the battle between a demonic aspect and an angelic one is often the demon attempting to attack and the angel stopping it. The angelic aspects are based on things that protect us. Love drives us to protect what we care about, compassion drives us to help those in need, etc. As such, the aspects representing these act as a shield for humanity that guards against the aspects representing harmful things like hatred. Diligitis is particularly good at preventing collateral damage.

I have been developing this world my entire life Buster. I have dedicated massive amounts of time to it's development. I have considered nearly all of this at one point or another. I don't give much attention to the history of the world because 90% of the time, it isn't important. There was a time where I would try to explain every little detail of the world, and try to get everything factually correct. I don't do that anymore because everything I wrote in that phase was an ugly mass of 75% exposition. This isn't lazy writing. When things in the world you build are different from real life, then you need to explain why. Not explaining will cause the audience to be confused, thus loosing their interest. Explaining wastes the audience's time, thus loosing their interest. The only way to win this is to make your world as familiar to the people watching/reading/playing as you reasonably can. Most people don't pay attention to the fact that things should be different, and most people who do don't care as long as the rest of it is good. The history of this world is barely addressed in Beacon of Hope because it isn't the focus. The focus is on the team, the challenges they face, the development of the characters. The only real time history has any importance is in the Legionnaire's story because he's lived through it, and even then most of his story won't be addressed in BoH because he has a dark past that goes past the forum ratings.

[Serence Frostbite]

Don't know if i'm adding fuel to the fire by saying this buuuuut

This is a super heroes RP, anything relate to superpowered beings kinda need a little bit of skimming through the details. Take superman for example, nobody would be able to even maintain a normal decent life with how easy it is for the entire city to be destroyed every single day. Another example would be X-men and Transformer, both of which has creatures with world-altering powers existing on Earth as far back as ancient time, realistically, those versions of Earth would be unrecognizable to us, but they are.

As much of a massive wasteland we would imagine this earth would be with all the Avatars of Destruction summoned during conflict, we have to also remember that, as there are many figures of atrocities during our history, the beacons of hope (cue credits *ding*) are also quite numerous. Now imagine in this specific world, where those people not only can motivate and keep the people hopeful, gathering like-minded individuals under the same ideals, and possible a hope of protection/salvation during war time, but also has a very tangible kind of power on their side in the form of another Avatar. The destruction would be larger yes, but so would the countermeasures and the recovery because literal MAGIC is happening.

All i'm saying is, don't think too hard on it, when you dissect a story, it's no longer a story, it's just words.

[CyberDragon]

Also, it should be noted that while demonic aspects are destructive and powerful, they do not crave the annihilation of life itself. They crave influence. None of the aspects can exist without sentient people to follow them, as they are representations of concepts existing in us. Odium seeks to spread hatred, and normally does so by initiating or continuing the cycle of revenge, escalating it every time. For every person he kills, numerous more hate his avatar for it, and his influence grows stronger. Similarly, for every person Diligitis's avatar saves, the more people love the avatar for it, and the more HIS influence grows.

Also, back to my earlier statement... Have you ever played an open world game and you managed to bug or hack into a place you weren't supposed to go and you find it incomplete or glitchy? That isn't a sign of laziness, it's a sign that the designers didn't expect you to go there because it has no significance or should have something preventing you from going there. They were more focused on making the vast expansive world they expected you to see and so they didn't pay attention to the place they weren't expecting you to go. I wasn't thinking of history when making this RP. I was thinking of super-fights, super powers, character development, giant space-ships with confusing layouts seemingly unrestricted by physical constraints much like the mind is, aliens worlds, zombies, and the possibility of giant dragons fighting each other with laser breath. I wasn't thinking of differences in history because I didn't expect it to be brought up.

[Buster]

However, those are not aspects.

I never said they were. i pointed them out because they are things that would stop one from giving in to an "aspect" based on how you've described them this far.

Love for example, which is an aspect, is something inherent to us as well.

I'm not disputing that.

Not all of our base instincts are bad or selfish ones.

I never said they were. i only mentioned one specific one that nearly always is, and alluded to the few that were similar.

I have been developing this world my entire life Buster.

development time is not an accurate measure of anything other than the quantity of itself, and is not a counter argument. something could take one person an hour and another person a month and still produce the same quality in the end. at best it comes off as interpreting critique as an ad hominem attack. Which, while i admit, i could have phrased that post better, it was not intended as.

I don't give much attention to the history of the world because 90% of the time, it isn't important. There was a time where I would try to explain every little detail of the world, and try to get everything factually correct. I don't do that anymore because everything I wrote in that phase was an ugly mass of 75% exposition.

see, that's where your opinion on this and mine are polar opposites. the small details ALWAYS matter because they make the world more believable. and while you are right about exposition being a waste of time, If the details are internally consistent, and presented clearly without being force-fed to the reader, your readers will be able to figure out what they mean without the need for any exposition at all.

just because exposition is the fastest way to get the information across, doesn't mean it's the only one, or the best. actually it's frequently the worst, Often being jarring and immersion breaking. the only time exposition is actually the right choice, is when character A has no idea what character B is talking about and needs it explained, and even then if a real person would have said 'get to the point' part way through that, it probably would have been better presented a different way.

Also, if something warrants explanation or discussion, it doesn't have to be spelled out in the work itself. Games with complex worlds tend to have a Codex, information compendium, logbook, or just an optional room full of books. Some even make a sort of 'hidden' mini game out of filling it up. novels can occur in sets with the information scattered throughout the whole series. Series can cross multiple media, and include things that one form of media alone cant. Visual media like movies can have people/objects in the background doing things. works or pretymuch any medium can repeatedly hint at something. something can be indicated as important simply by talking the time to indicate it's presence, even if you don't actually say anything about it, while describing actions or scenery. RPs and interactive fiction are frequently accompanied by discussion focused forum threads on the same site.

When things in the world you build are different from real life, then you need to explain why. Not explaining will cause the audience to be confused, thus loosing their interest. Explaining wastes the audience's time, thus loosing their interest.

Not if you show how it's different rather than explaining it and are consistent. Or in the case of something interactive, set up the world so that they can experience it for themselves.

you don't need someone to walk up to you and go "oh, by the way, zora are aquatic" when they're covered in fins, always live near water, and you see them traveling mainly by swimming, do you? You can get a lot of detail across just by setting up scenes correctly, and what goes unsaid but is easily intuited is often far more informative (and interesting) than what is said.

This is a super heroes RP, anything relate to superpowered beings kinda need a little bit of skimming through the details. Take superman for example, nobody would be able to even maintain a normal decent life with how easy it is for the entire city to be destroyed every single day. Another example would be X-men and Transformer, both of which has creatures with world-altering powers existing on Earth as far back as ancient time, realistically, those versions of Earth would be unrecognizable to us, but they are.

remember when I said this particular world building mistake was stupidly common? also movies aside, transformers is a bad example, because they were dormant buried inside a volcano up until the 80s, (somewhere they CANT influence humanity's development, because we typically don't go inside those) and when they woke up, things DID change, drastically. by the time Rodimus takes command, humanity is well ahead of where we are now technologically despite it being 2005, and their culture (and fashion if Spike Witwicky' apearance is any example) wen't down a different path. my whole argument here is about the fact that things don't seem to have changed anywhere near as much as they should have to be belivable.

Now imagine in this specific world, where those people not only can motivate and keep the people hopeful, gathering like-minded individuals under the same ideals, and possible a hope of protection/salvation during war time, but also has a very tangible kind of power on their side in the form of another Avatar. The destruction would be larger yes, but so would the countermeasures and the recovery because literal MAGIC is happening.

which in turn would have likely lead to them being well known, possibly even worshiped, and traits beneficial to their opposites being shunned. Something that would radically change the theological and social landscape of early civilizations, influencing the cultures of everyone who came after them. Heck, certain religions might have formed earlier, or not at all. Unless there's some kind of "grand conspiracy" going on but I find that unlikely because, A) CD is a better writer than to invoke that tired cliche, and B) it would get progressively harder to cover that up the more incidents occurred.

[~\Rook/~]

..The only person who seems to care about the history making sense is you, Buster. I'm not saying its a bad thing, just.. Do you really have to argue about it?

We're all just here to have fun and punch bad guys with superpowers.. Not everything has to make sense, just enjoy the ride!

[CyberDragon]

No, Buster has a lot of good points. I'll elaborate when I get back. I feel like I say this a lot, but I think I can fix this.

[Buster]

Not everything has to make sense, just enjoy the ride!

You realise you're talking to the one who has notes on her characters that dwarf formal essays right? I'm kinda obsessive about this sort of thing. besides trying to figure out how a setting functions (or poking holes in the ones that don't) IS fun for me...

Which now that I think about it is probably why I'm so picky about movies...

But, yeah, if I'm getting on anyone's nerves, sorry.

[Serence Frostbite]

I agree that it's fun. I too enjoy world building a lot But try not to get too invested in it to the point that it might appear as aggression to others, after all everyone wants to have fun, and i imagine it wouldn't be fun hearing someone else questioning everything

[Welsh Halfwit]

Handshake time, Buster & Cyber?

[Deske]

No way, fan the flames. This is a great learning opportunity.

[CyberDragon]

Honestly Buster, you had a point from the start. I got defensive because I thought you were implying laziness in my world building. This world is an obsession of mine, and quite possibly one of the few things I actually do put 100% effort into. However, now that I know you didn't mean it that way, I'm more willing to talk.

The truth is that this problem can probably find it's roots in the fact that, in the original version of this universe, the aspects weren't a thing. I added them in after taking a graphic novel class. I wanted something that would allow me to use this story to explore complex concepts and philosophies while simultaneously giving an excuse to have super-powered kaiju fighting each other with laser beams. However, in adding them and developing them, I didn't really think to consider the implications they would have with regards to the history of the universe they exist in. They were mostly relevant to The Dragon Knight's story and the story of the Beacon of Hope.

However, I think I have a saving throw on this one.

Unless there's some kind of "grand conspiracy" going on

... eww. gross. no.

Also, it should be noted that while demonic aspects are destructive and powerful, they do not crave the annihilation of life itself. They crave influence. None of the aspects can exist without sentient people to follow them, as they are representations of concepts existing in us. Odium seeks to spread hatred, and normally does so by initiating or continuing the cycle of revenge, escalating it every time. For every person he kills, numerous more hate his avatar for it, and his influence grows stronger. Similarly, for every person Diligitis's avatar saves, the more people love the avatar for it, and the more HIS influence grows.

This has some implications for the history of this world. For example, Odium, one of the aspects that craves destruction, still doesn't crave total destruction. What it craves more is influence. Suppose the planet is in the stone age. It does Odium no good if his avatar completely wipes out even just another entire tribe. Word of what happened wouldn't spread, at least not to anyone who cared. The easier word spreads of his avatar's hateful violence, the greater the amount of damage he can allow the avatar to do before he suffers diminishing returns. In a more modern era, he'd be able to let an avatar have the power to commit genocide, as the whole of humanity sees what happens and learns to hate. In the future era, he'd be able to grant an avatar the ability to destroy a planet or even a galaxy because that would send shock-waves throughout the entire interconnected universe.

What's trickier to figure out is the angelic aspects. They don't have diminishing returns. The more Diligitis lets its avatar help people, the more people love them for it. Then again, I have toyed with the idea of religions based around the aspects, even if they aren't mainstream. Then again, Angelic avatars only need to use the full awe-inspiring extent of their powers when combating a demonic avatar, so... This could be something to explore.

The history of this universe, since we haven't really dealt much with it up to this point, isn't set in stone. I don't know when it will come up, probably after the current main arc when I plan on having us recruit the Legionnaire. When it does come up, I'll try my best to get things making sense.

Handshake time, Buster? *holds out hand and scowls at Deske*

[Buster]

*pulls you into a bearhug instead.*

maybe the problem on the light side isn't flaws with the aspect half of the avatar, but flaws with the mortal vessel half. 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and all that. it could be hard to find a vessel who won't loose sight of why they're becoming an avatar (and subsequently damage the bond with their aspect) somewhere down the line?

[Deske]

What can I say? The lure of increased power due to creating strife is alluring.

[CyberDragon]

*pulls you into a bearhug instead.*

maybe the problem on the light side isn't flaws with the aspect half of the avatar, but flaws with the mortal vessel half. 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and all that. it could be hard to find a vessel who won't loose sight of why they're becoming an avatar (and subsequently damage the bond with their aspect) somewhere down the line?

*is squished*

That's a good idea and fits with the lore. In order to become an avatar, The Dragon Knight had to utterly purge hatred from himself through intense contemplation and meditation. He has to desire the redemption and well-being of everyone, even his enemies. Not many people can do that. Heck, I've tried to do the same, yet I still find I come up short. The original idea of the aspect of love in particular was that it was unconditional love. The desire to help even those who try to hurt you. Not help them cause harm, mind you. Help them rid themselves of their vices.

What can I say? The lure of increased power due to creating strife is alluring.

Don't be such a demonic avatar, Deske.

I wanted something that would allow me to use this story to explore complex concepts and philosophies while simultaneously giving an excuse to have super-powered kaiju fighting each other with laser beams.

Also, anyone feel free to put this in the Out Of Context thread. It'd be weird for me to put it there.

[Buster]

*ties deske up and stuffs him in a corner*

[Deske]

[Serence Frostbite]

about the avatar losing sight of their original goal, I think it's pretty easy to do. These aspects , at least it seem to me anyway, aren't like gods who choose a mortal to wield their powers, but more like emotions and concepts given form and powers, so in theory, if a mortal no longer have that emotion in their heart, they would automatically lose the power too, right?

I mean, you could argue that someone like, let's say, "avatar of valor" go on a rampage against their enemy even though the outcome is pretty much decided in their favor because they truly believe their action is right, or something, and so would still have valor in their heart, despite appearing to everyone else as someone who's gone mad with power, but that's a whole other story I think

actually if anyone here watched FATE/Apocrypha (not the best anime, I know), Ruler of Red and Archer of Red are both characters who would fit the bill of someone doing "evil" things with positive intention in their mind, especially the former

[CyberDragon]

You've pretty much got it spot on. Notice I never really call them gods. I call them aspects, and sometimes demigods or deities, but never gods. They are supposed to be a representation of abstract concepts, given form and character.

[Deske]

Oh boy, did Hive construct his own Alcubierre drive?

[CyberDragon]

The concept behind the Alcubierre drive is similar to the concept behind Hivemind's FTL warp drive.

[Buster]

considering it's one of the few FTL mechanisims that actually works in the microscopic scale, it's not surprising.

that said, i was under the impression that scaling it up enough to move a ship of practical size would require more power than the output of a star going nova...

[CyberDragon]

Hivemind's FTL drive does have a high energy requirement, but he's found ways to make it more efficient. Also, his brother was an energy absorber and manipulator (I used to just dump whatever power I was testing into the Dragon Knight to see if I liked it. Many of the powers I tested went on to be new characters because the power had no meaning for The Dragon Knight, but I still liked it. Tempest got her start that way. Other powers I just kept as part of his arsenal. I've kind of got his base powers set as space-time manipulation/gravity manipulation and energy absorption/projection. Of course, he would get more stuff as a meta-avatar. And that's why I largely keep him in the sidelines of this RP, only occasionally intervening, usually when another aspect/avatar is involved.) so he was able to study that power in order to generate mass quantities for the ship.