2020/01/27 - Rub A Dub Dub

Post by **D-Rock** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:03 am

[2020/01/27 - Rub A Dub Dub]
Title Text: two fools and a tub

Think of the family, King. Think of the family.

Gbr23 · Post by **Gbr23** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:05 am

Nothing better than a bath to start things over

... did we know the crush thingy?

Post by **D-Rock** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:06 am

Gbr23 wrote:Nothing better than a bath to start things over

... did we know the crush thingy?

Don't think so? This feels new.

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:07 am

Not surprised, I figure he'll be deep into an embarrassing position before anyone gets home. Let's see him get out of it.

The only surprise here is i dont recall him having a crush on her. I always assumed he had sympathy for her.

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:09 am

A dog that likes baths?! Clearly Sasha is more far gone then we previously thought.

Gbr23 wrote:... did we know the crush thingy?

He did ask her out and get her a big present for Valentines day early in the comic (...and he admits to himself he likes her in All the King's Men).

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:09 am

This is definitely new. Right now it feels pretty random. The only dog he's ever shown romantic feelings for is Bailey. Sasha was always a second tier friend after Fox. I think we missed a step. They spent one night together in the cold and then he built a house for her in the woods but then he met Bailey and that was it. Even then he's rarely interacted with Sasha since the wedding if ever.

Most of the feelings he might have felt were out of pity. The doghouse was more to help her as a friend than any romantic gesture. I mean considering how they met the doghouse made sense. And he was drunk. He hit on Tarot. Let's be real.

IceKitsune · Post by **IceKitsune** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:12 am

Oh, King you better hope that Bailey doesn't come home right now. Then again given how some dogs are in this universe she might think nothing of it. Pets seem to be pretty relaxed relationship-wise compared to humans, for the most part anyway. I'm pretty sure that it was at least hinted at that King at one point did have a crush on Sasha, I think it was when he was drunk before meeting Tarot? Maybe? I know it was a long time ago though. The fact that he still does is new though.

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:15 am

The crush might have been the first stirrings of an attraction to dogs, something perhaps he could really consider until much later when he fell for Bailey. I could see that being something he suppressed until now.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:17 am

Here's the quote from "All the King's Men." However, it didn't help that his counterpart was a female. A female he particularly liked, though in the so-ditzy-she's adorable kind of way. But he couldn't do it with Fox; the would be even weirder."

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:17 am

Finally the best ol’ boy is talking -
and working - along with his canine side;
now he’s becoming the completed him
and showing the side that he used to hide.
Interior monologues when in two minds
is quite a fascinating old idea;
it gives new plots and new ways through
and keeps us up with King’s fear.
He’s panicking, and it’s OK right now,
as he gives Sasha a good scrub.
He’s not cheating on his Bailey
but will she believe him? There’s the rub.

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:18 am

He did hit on Sasha first while under the influence. I forget how it went down in All The Kings Men, but he sniffed her butt?

However, i figured he wouldn't have a crush at this point. This is odd. But I will say that he might be having the issue I figured pets would have in general in that the feeling for other dogs never drops. The Marriage thing is just in his head and looks to be not blocking his own pet desires.

Have to see where this goes.

Also - this is the kinda thing i would expect Max would do to Grape, or any other couple for that matter. Wonder if Kevin did this to Sasha? x3

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:20 am

I guess in a lot of ways we shouldn't be that surprised. I mean he is still a male and therefore has male desires. His species changed but he's still a dude. This is a normal situation for any relationship in any sitcom.

Ruska · Post by **Ruska** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:23 am

Ok, now I really want Fox to show up!

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:25 am

fenrirblack wrote:I guess in a lot of ways we shouldn't be that surprised. I mean he is still a male and therefore has male desires. His species changed but he's still a dude. This is a normal situation for any relationship in any sitcom.

That and is now a dog with dog instincts. Dos are not generally monogamous. They seem to lean that way in HP, but not for sure.

I just hope this gets stopped before King has three more pups to deal with.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:29 am

dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:I guess in a lot of ways we shouldn't be that surprised. I mean he is still a male and therefore has male desires. His species changed but he's still a dude. This is a normal situation for any relationship in any sitcom.
That and is now a dog with dog instincts. Dos are not generally monogamous. They seem to lean that way in HP, but not for sure.

I just hope this gets stopped before King has three more pups to deal with.

I wonder if the two voices are supposed to represent the King part of him and the Joel part. That would be kind of neat. His conscious has devolved into two separate entities.

I actually missed this. King's inner thoughts are always entertaining. Especially when he's struggling. He should have brought back the stick figures.

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:45 am

fenrirblack wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:I guess in a lot of ways we shouldn't be that surprised. I mean he is still a male and therefore has male desires. His species changed but he's still a dude. This is a normal situation for any relationship in any sitcom.
That and is now a dog with dog instincts. Dos are not generally monogamous. They seem to lean that way in HP, but not for sure.

I just hope this gets stopped before King has three more pups to deal with.
I wonder if the two voices are supposed to represent the King part of him and the Joel part. That would be kind of neat. His conscious has devolved into two separate entities.

I actually missed this. King's inner thoughts are always entertaining. Especially when he's struggling. He should have brought back the stick figures.

Reminds me of Deadpool, honestly. In this case, the light cloud is the sensitive side and the bold one is the logical one - worrying seems to be just a King thing. x3

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:51 am

Okay brainstorm time. What if Bailey hits him over the head with a frying pan and knocks him out. Then it shifts to Kings subconscious where he talks to Joel. Joel tries to explain why this crush is a bad idea and he should move on. Then there is more introspective that would be really neat. Tells him Your not too far gone.

Another thought is what if Kevin catches them. He was okay with Fox but maybe not King.
Kevin: I expected better from you.
King: I know.
Kevin: I mean your married.
King: I know.
Kevin: I thought this wouldn’t be a issue because you used to be human.
King: I kno...wait, how did YOU know that?

Something worth noting is how trouble the first panel is. It does seem to be an issue (one that could have easily been avoided) that these feelings for Sasha are retroactive or pre-existing even though there was no real indication of such. If the wording was changed to emphasize that these feelings have appeared that day or in a better manner would be fine because it would just be King being a guy but to imply that there is a preexisting crush is a bad move.
Look at the panel, and instead of the bottom text what if it was changed to “No, you clearly have feelings for her and this will make things worse!”

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:25 am

Given King and Bailey's dynamic of "[Human concern]!" "Hon, you must remember we are dogs", I don't think Bailey would misinterpret even the most sitcomy situation.

GameCobra wrote:However, i figured he wouldn't have a crush at this point. This is odd. But I will say that he might be having the issue I figured pets would have in general in that the feeling for other dogs never drops. The Marriage thing is just in his head and looks to be not blocking his own pet desires.

I could be wrong, but I think this is just a crush. There's a big difference between that and all-out romantic infatuation.

fenrirblack wrote:Something worth noting is how trouble the first panel is. It does seem to be an issue (one that could have easily been avoided) that these feelings for Sasha are retroactive or pre-existing even though there was no real indication of such.

I respectfully disagree with you that the first panel is troubling on the grounds there was a real indication of such feelings.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:34 am

Ruska wrote:Ok, now I really want Fox to show up!

Or the puppies - nothing squashes romantic stirrings like a wheedling toddler interruption!

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:38 am

Champion Wallace wrote:.
fenrirblack wrote:Something worth noting is how trouble the first panel is. It does seem to be an issue (one that could have easily been avoided) that these feelings for Sasha are retroactive or pre-existing even though there was no real indication of such.
I respectfully disagree with you that the first panel is troubling on the grounds there was a real indication of such feelings.

Not really. The only time any feelings of attraction were brought up was in “All the Kings men” like I posted which is A, not a great source of material given its circumstances B, not something many have read, and C, even the quote itself is ambiguous.

It is also troubling based on the sheer amount of people who have pointed it out that such feelings have not been shown before in a manner that would qualify as legitimate evidence. An author shouldn’t strive to confuse their readers.

Again it’s the word “still” that’s the problem. It carries a lot of weight because it implies to the reader that the crush is not only preexisting but was important in the past (or at least mentioned in a precise manner). It’s one of those things that’s more trouble than it was worth. You know how many minor changes I have to make to my posts so they’re not misinterpreted? More often then you think.

Take “still” out and it implies that the crush occurred that day which is fine because it just shows that King has become more situated in his dog ness and is doing what dogs do which is find others of the species attractive. There is no shame in that and it is a very common trope.

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:14 am

Fenrir, those two strips you linked.

Have you read the second one?

"You're not attracted to female Dogs - at least you tell yourself that."

Even back then he was attracted to them, he just didn't believe himself. And, as he only knew a couple of female dogs that weren't Tarot...

Douglas Collier · Post by **Douglas Collier** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:19 am

Oh heck! I was not expecting it to go that far this quickly.

I'm having flashbacks to a similar experience Doug had.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:35 am

Another thought occurred to me. A way to make this work better would have another character appear and ask King “When did this crush start?” And have King give whatever answer makes sense given the circumstances like a few months before hand at a party we never saw. It would at least make this strip feel less like it came out of left field.

Welsh Halfwit wrote:Fenrir, those two strips you linked.

Have you read the second one?

"You're not attracted to female Dogs - at least you tell yourself that."

Even back then he was attracted to them, he just didn't believe himself. And, as he only knew a couple of female dogs that weren't Tarot...

Yeah, but the wording in this strip implies that this goes beyond just simple attraction and deeper. Not to mention he was referring solely to Bailey at the time and does not indicate that he had been attracted to other dogs besides her.
If he had been attracted to other dogs before meeting a Bailey then it stands to reason that his reaction and that entire monologue would not even have happened because it would have taken place long before when he first realized that he was becoming attracted to female dogs. It was a very intense and dramatic dialogue for someone who had regular experience with these feelings.

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:47 am

fenrirblack wrote: Not to mention he was referring solely to Bailey at the time and does not indicate that he had been attracted to other dogs besides her.

It does to me. "At least you tell yourself that" speaks of denial and you know what you need to have for denial? A truth to deny. He had those feelings before Bailey but wasn't in a place, mentally, to accept them. He's not fully accepting now but he understands them better.

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:20 am

fenrirblack wrote:
Champion Wallace wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:Something worth noting is how trouble the first panel is. It does seem to be an issue (one that could have easily been avoided) that these feelings for Sasha are retroactive or pre-existing even though there was no real indication of such.
I respectfully disagree with you that the first panel is troubling on the grounds there was a real indication of such feelings.
Not really. The only time any feelings of attraction were brought up was in “All the Kings men” like I posted which is A, not a great source of material given its circumstances B, not something many have read, and C, even the quote itself is ambiguous.

It is also troubling based on the sheer amount of people who have pointed it out that such feelings have not been shown before in a manner that would qualify as legitimate evidence. An author shouldn’t strive to confuse their readers.

Again it’s the word “still” that’s the problem. It carries a lot of weight because it implies to the reader that the crush is not only preexisting but was important in the past (or at least mentioned in a precise manner). It’s one of those things that’s more trouble than it was worth. You know how many minor changes I have to make to my posts so they’re not misinterpreted? More often then you think.

Take “still” out and it implies that the crush occurred that day which is fine because it just shows that King has become more situated in his dog ness and is doing what dogs do which is find others of the species attractive. There is no shame in that and it is a very common trope.

Yes really. When they first met Sasha broke him out of his slump and they snuggled together for the night. He may not have done that because he had a crush on her then, but it's a good way to foster one. There isn't much ambiguity in "A female he particularly liked". The next part detracts from the intensity, but remember it's just a crush, not a serious romantic interest (and your point B is redundant; its shortcomings as a source material is entirely the fact not many have read it). The next time they meet King's drunk, but being drunk doesn't make you a different person; you say stuff that you wouldn't normally, but is still true. The doghouse had special circumstances, but it was still a lot of effort. It was more bighugeawesome than the gift her boyfriend Bino gave when trying to make up for forgetting. The doghouse wasn't just a you-should-have-this-in-winter gift, it was specifically given for Valentines day. In contemplation after meeting Bailey the plurality and tense of his thoughts actually does indicate that he had been attracted to other dogs besides her.

An author shouldn't strive to confuse their readers, but in the same vein they shouldn't hold their readers' hand all the time. You take issue with the word "still" because it implies something about their past relationship. Conversely, I think that is its biggest strength. It reminds the readers that forgot or were oblivious to King's crush and gets them on the same page in time for it to inform the rest of the arc. Plus it's done very concisely. It may feel out of left field, but you'll come to accept it and its better to get this out of the way now or it would feel even more out of left field when it comes up later. If you think the evidence before is ambiguous or it could be taken either way because there's nothing definitive, well, you get definitiveness right in this strip.

If you take "still" out it could still be a good story, but it would be a slightly different story and it appears this is the story Rick Griffin wants to tell.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:46 am

The ultimate in Sitcom resolution: communication.

King has called Baily to ask if she's okay with something before. He should do it again now. Either she'll say yes, and he can give Sasha a bath with a clear conscience, or she'll say no and he'll have an excuse not to do it.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:26 am

fenrirblack wrote:Kevin: I expected better from you.
King: I know.

Kevin: That's totally the wrong dog shampoo for her fur type.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:45 am

Come on, King, it's just like bathing your pets, just that this one is bigger than you. What? human bathe their pets in this world, it's not weird! (We had that one where Grape was tricked into the bathtub, remember?)

...then again, remembering who Joel's pets were, that may not be comforting

VeryAngryDeer wrote:King has called Baily to ask if she's okay with something before. He should do it again now. Either she'll say yes, and he can give Sasha a bath with a clear conscience, or she'll say no and he'll have an excuse not to do it.

Well I think that shows who wears the pants in this relationship!

Neither. Neither of them wears pants.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:56 am

NHWestoN wrote:
Ruska wrote:Ok, now I really want Fox to show up!

Or the puppies - nothing squashes romantic stirrings like a wheedling toddler interruption!

Yep! Though in their case, they'd probably jump in the tub as well!

HundKatzeMaus · Post by **HundKatzeMaus** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:01 am

Yeah, the whole "crush" thing is a little weird, but maybe it's because it wasn't so much emphasized and we mostly saw King interacting with Bailey instead of any other female dogs? It is a little confusing.

I'm just wondering why a bath of all the things does give her pleasent memories. Maybe she really likes to be groomed.
It reminds me in one strip she was participating in a dog show and maybe it's because she is treated like a star, someone important?
Maybe her owner once did a nice thing to her by giving her a bath or several?
Maybe it's just me, but I think this could reveal something interesting.
Or she just likes getting pampered once in a while

Nathan Kerbonaut · Post by **Nathan Kerbonaut** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:32 am

Blushy King is the best. He may be dying on the inside but at the same time he's so cute

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:58 am

King is giving her something she needs at least after losing her owner. If Sasha felt like she was wronging King, she would stick up to him after this and the dog house incident.

I just think the funny thing is, thinking about how her mind mightbe thinking after this, she would want Kevin to be like King and her like Bailey. hah.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:46 am

HundKatzeMaus wrote:Yeah, the whole "crush" thing is a little weird, but maybe it's because it wasn't so much emphasized and we mostly saw King interacting with Bailey instead of any other female dogs? It is a little confusing.

I'm just wondering why a bath of all the things does give her pleasent memories. Maybe she really likes to be groomed.
It reminds me in one strip she was participating in a dog show and maybe it's because she is treated like a star, someone important?
Maybe her owner once did a nice thing to her by giving her a bath or several?
Maybe it's just me, but I think this could reveal something interesting.
Or she just likes getting pampered once in a while

Your mentioning of the dog show just brought to mind a theory I have: Could she at one point been a famous star or, at the very least, the daughter of one, hence her attitude and how the male dog population seems to go crazy for her? We know she was adopted so that's what brought that theory to mind.

FireworkFox · Post by **FireworkFox** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:53 am

At least Sasha's having a good time.

Champion Wallace wrote:Given King and Bailey's dynamic of "[Human concern]!" "Hon, you must remember we are dogs", I don't think Bailey would misinterpret even the most sitcomy situation.

I agree. I feel like Bailey wouldn't get all too worked up over this.

LunarFox · Post by **LunarFox** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:33 am

Sasha's feeling flirty today,
Oh dear, oh me, oh my,
King, please try not to stare,
We can see the hearts glow in your eye.

So you still have the hots for Sasha,
That comes as no real surprise,
But while you're washing her back,
Your heart rate's sure to rise.

This can mean nothing but trouble,
That's become abundantly clear,
Now King's faced with a question,
His instincts, or Bailey, which to fear?

--
(Both, really.)

CuriousCnidarian · Post by **CuriousCnidarian** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:46 am

Ah, yes, the old "dredging up a years-old plotpoint that barely anyone remembered". Chapter will probably climax with Bailey (and maybe the kids too) walking in on King and Sasha in a compromising-yet-ultimately-innocent situation and not be too worried since, as has been said before, dogs are more relaxed when it comes to relationships.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:54 am

With that two voices in his head, I have a little flashback to "Sword Art Online: Abridged". Especially Episode 10. Anyone else?

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:38 pm

CuriousCnidarian wrote:Ah, yes, the old "dredging up a years-old plotpoint that barely anyone remembered". Chapter will probably climax with Bailey (and maybe the kids too) walking in on King and Sasha in a compromising-yet-ultimately-innocent situation and not be too worried since, as has been said before, dogs are more relaxed when it comes to relationships.

That feels like where this is going, unless we're going to change gears in a big way with someone else entering the picture, like Fox of one of the wolves or something. It's feeling less and less like where this is going, but we've arcs withing arcs before.

It feels like this could be a nice peek into some dog behavior that we've not seen much of. The canines that aren't King seem to have little problem with physical affection with each other. I'm sure Sasha could be an outlier, but Kevin didn't have a problem with Sasha making out with Fox.

Then again, he could be an outlier, too...

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:44 pm

Champion Wallace wrote: Yes really. When they first met Sasha broke him out of his slump and they snuggled together for the night. He may not have done that because he had a crush on her then, but it's a good way to foster one. There isn't much ambiguity in "A female he particularly liked". The next part detracts from the intensity, but remember it's just a crush, not a serious romantic interest (and your point B is redundant; its shortcomings as a source material is entirely the fact not many have read it). The next time they meet King's drunk, but being drunk doesn't make you a different person; you say stuff that you wouldn't normally, but is still true. The doghouse had special circumstances, but it was still a lot of effort. It was more bighugeawesome than the gift her boyfriend Bino gave when trying to make up for forgetting. The doghouse wasn't just a you-should-have-this-in-winter gift, it was specifically given for Valentines day. In contemplation after meeting Bailey the plurality and tense of his thoughts actually does indicate that he had been attracted to other dogs besides her.

You may have a point.
Something I didn't take into account was the fact Sasha brought up the doghouse a few strips ago. This is an indication on Rick's part that it was significant therefore whatever feelings King has/had for Sasha would have begun roughly either the night they met or around the time he built it. I was thinking of the dog house as King's animal rights activist side but even if that was part of it there is no reason that semi-romantic feelings couldn't have played a role in it's construction. I still wouldn't give the drunk scene any credibility beyond a joke or King simply being drunk but the doghouse being mentioned again means it was significant or is now. Any feelings that King had would have been suppressed until meeting Bailey when they became too powerful to control and any feelings for Sasha would have been moved to Bailey until now when Bailey is missing for the moment and those old feelings are returning. Again like a sitcom. Thinking about it from a sitcom or a romance perspective, Sasha was there for King at the lowest point of his life. That moment would in itself been perfect fodder for feelings. A bond was formed that would not be so easily broken or ignored.
So from this logic (shifting gears for a second) this story is not about some cheap sitcom moment where Bailey walks through the door and may or may not react accordingly depending on your idea of how dogs would handle this situation, but instead King coming to terms with a part of himself that he didn't know or didn't want to remember existed within him. The last lingering parts of him rejecting his dog ness or realizing whatever feelings he has for Sasha is more than a "Crush" but a deeper connection that he didn't realize that was there and therefore making him grow as a person. Taking into account Sasha is going to be living there clearly these feelings need to be resolved. That way King realizes that what he feels isn't a "crush" but something deeper and therefore he can live alongside Sasha for the time being without slowly dying inside. Something along the lines of "What I have with you (Sasha) is special but not the same as how I feel about Bailey. I like you but I don't like you like that."

Post by **Dissension** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:07 pm

fenrirblack wrote:I admit the night together would foster feelings but those feelings should have been more present in the past.

To which prior arc do you feel those emotions would have been most relevant?

fenrirblack wrote:The real point is even if all these points do count as past indicators of feelings of attraction towards Sasha they are weak at best and not the best thing to base an entire chapter plot on which is why I suggested having an excuse to have King explain the origin of the feelings so to establish a more solid foundation.

You've at least gone from ignoring evidence to saying it's not evidence you like or consider good enough, which I guess is improvement.

fenrirblack wrote:Even if it’s the story Ricks wants to tell, that doesn’t make it a good idea. A good editor would have pointed that out. It’s not about the writer it’s also about the reader.

This is a comic someone writes for fun. If you don't like it, you're not required to read it. If you're here to drag Rick through the mud, you're not here.