2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

[dr_eirik]

I don't think I'd get too hung up on the name "River Ridge". Seems like a nicely generic name for a high school that wasn't named for a specific town.

Though I'd love to see what kind of "Ridge" there is in Florida to warrant a name like that.

I'm sure, as others have said, that Rick doesn't have an ultra-specific idea in mind when it comes to the location of Babylon Gardens. And even if he does, since this is a parallel universe to ours, then you can assume that there are geographic and regional distances to our world.

[Champion Wallace]

...It's tough love time..

...drop some tough love...

..."tough love"...

...Marion needs tough love...

...no nonsense tough love approach...

I think you have thoroughly conveyed you expect tough love in the future.

I don't blame you for not seeing the native Americans thing. You can find the story here

That doesn't say that the coyotes replaced all the human native Americans, just seems like some coyotes that somehow use guns and are or native coyote descent.

You're right. Cyotes may not have replaces native Americans in this setting, but there were a lot of things in that story that indicated they lived like native Americans in real life. I think the point Buster was trying to make is that wolfs would've lived like coyotes (and by extension indigenous people) and thus the response to them by the US government would be more like how they responded to native Americans in real life instead of how they dealt with wolfs in real life (eradication). Then again, the US didn't treat the indigenous people well to put it very mildly, so even if all this is correct wolfs still might've been relegated to Yellowstone.

also, Welcome to the forums! I hope you enjoy your time here.

Legitly thought you were talking to peanut, until I realise you were probably talking to me or someone else.

Yes, you. In hindsight I could have phrased that better.

Also, I just checked the original comic and it's actually 9 hours round trip. 4.5 hours to some part of Kansas.

That depends. Is it "nine hours up and back combined", or is it "nine hours up and nine hours back. I'd say its the latter because if not then four hours in they would be most of the way there so Grape shouldn't be that annoyed if Peanut used his entertainment for most of the ride and is only then falling asleep and the rest of the arc would have to fit in half an hour, and by extension they would stop at a rest stop within half an hour of their destination.

Is it ever actually confirmed that Rueben's farm is in Kansas? I just skimmed through the road trip/farm arc and didn't see any mention of it.

There wasn't a canon location for Ruben's far when the arc came out or when the map was made, but fortunately Peanut later confermed the farm was in Kansas.

[Argent]

How many of them are near a theme park?

[Buster]

I don't think I'd get too hung up on the name "River Ridge". Seems like a nicely generic name for a high school that wasn't named for a specific town.

it's also the only landmark we've got besides there being a Springfield somewhere vaguely nearby.

examining species ranges doesn't work unless we discount one or more of the uncommon species present, since there's no one location that has all of the three that've come up.

the kansas bit needs to be recalculated because of an oversight (misreading a nine hour round trip as a nine hour trip) which is probably going to reduce the viable area to a quarter of what it was, if anyone figures out the geometry.

Geography and climate only really narrow it down to 'Cold enough for significant snowfall, no visible or mentioned mountains, and has a decent number of hills, and good tree variety'. which is kinda vague and only really rules out about half the country, less useful than you'd think.

without a landmark to work from we're back to hunting for clues.

[Amazee Dayzee]

You know, I am beginning to think that Rick made both Babylon Gardens and where exactly in Kansas Reuben's farm was ambiguous on purpose because he knew that a few people, even early on in the comic's run would try to figure out the exact location. XD

[ZAR22]

I don't blame you for not seeing the native Americans thing. You can find the story here

That doesn't say that the coyotes replaced all the human native Americans, just seems like some coyotes that somehow use guns and are or native coyote descent.

You're right. Cyotes may not have replaces native Americans in this setting, but there were a lot of things in that story that indicated they lived like native Americans in real life. I think the point Buster was trying to make is that wolfs would've lived like coyotes (and by extension indigenous people) and thus the response to them by the US government would be more like how they responded to native Americans in real life instead of how they dealt with wolfs in real life (eradication). Then again, the US didn't treat the indigenous people well to put it very mildly, so even if all this is correct wolfs still might've been relegated to Yellowstone.

not just treating them bad, neatly exterminating them. And remember if they truly were treated similar to equals of the natives, the militons would have the whole "equal" bit to worry about since the equal treatment of the animals would at least extend to the pets atleast. Or maybe not, I don't know for certain.

[album][/album]That depends. Is it "nine hours up and back combined", or is it "nine hours up and nine hours back. I'd say its the latter because if not then four hours in they would be most of the way there so Grape shouldn't be that annoyed if Peanut used his entertainment for most of the ride and is only then falling asleep and the rest of the arc would have to fit in half an hour, and by extension they would stop at a rest stop within half an hour of their destination.

I just presently went from the southern middle of Iowa to Nashville Tennese (Yes, I am currently traveling around the states for a bit with my uncle driving) in a time span of ELEVEN hours, WITH 8 sort of long breaks and going on and off different roads, and dealing with traffic, so excluding all the obstacles, I would say it's Nine hours BOTH to and from Kansas IMO.

[Dissension]

I daresay the intent is "nine hours up and nine hours back.

[Champion Wallace]

the kansas bit needs to be recalculated because of an oversight (misreading a nine hour round trip as a nine hour trip) which is probably going to reduce the viable area to a quarter of what it was, if anyone figures out the geometry, and the location may not even be Kansas (we don't know if max's backstory actually references ruben's farm, or if this is the farm of the previous owner Rufus alluded to having, and he and the cats were sold/given to ruben at some point after that).

According to the tags, Rufus takes Kitten Maxwell to Uncle Reuben. Since Rufus has lived at that farm since before Ruben was his owner, both Down at the Farm and The Maxwell Thing take place at the same farm, ergo they both take place in Kansas (and the map doesn't need to be recalculated if the first interpretation was correct and not an oversight).

[Buster]

According to the tags, Rufus takes Kitten Maxwell to Uncle Reuben. Since Rufus has lived at that farm since before Ruben was his owner, both Down at the Farm and The Maxwell Thing take place at the same farm, ergo they both take place in Kansas.

okay, fair enough. i didn't notice that detail.

I daresay the intent is "nine hours up and nine hours back.

then why isn't it phrased that way? referring to two different legs of a journey collectively, as the page does, usually means 'this amount of time total' not 'this amount of time each'... hence the calculation error of the travel distance.

I just presently went from the southern middle of Iowa to Nashville Tennese (Yes, I am currently traveling around the states for a bit with my uncle driving) in a time span of ELEVEN hours, WITH 8 sort of long breaks and going on and off different roads, and dealing with traffic, so excluding all the obstacles, I would say it's Nine hours BOTH to and from Kansas IMO.

that experience would only be relevant though if we knew the starting point and it was travel time we were trying to figure out. we're not. travel time is given for us,it's fixed and not changing barring reader error, we're trying to figure out how far from the nearest part of kansas one can get in that pre determined amount of time, without violating traffic laws, in order to narrow down where the starting point was.

[Amazee Dayzee]

With the amount of thinking that everybody is putting into this, you just have to wonder if Rick is off somewhere chuckling as the forum tries to solve a mystery he didn't even put forward.

[ZAR22]

I just presently went from the southern middle of Iowa to Nashville Tennese (Yes, I am currently traveling around the states for a bit with my uncle driving) in a time span of ELEVEN hours, WITH 8 sort of long breaks and going on and off different roads, and dealing with traffic, so excluding all the obstacles, I would say it's Nine hours BOTH to and from Kansas IMO.

that experience would only be relevant though if we knew the starting point and it was travel time we were trying to figure out. we're not. travel time is given for us,it's fixed and not changing barring reader error, we're trying to figure out how far from the nearest part of kansas one can get in that pre determined amount of time, without violating traffic laws, in order to narrow down where the starting point was.

No, you don't need to know the starting point to figure the location with time made, as I was taught in math that as long as you have the time and distance traveled, you can figure out the start and stopping point. Hence a formula distance over time? Also, you mean some as you, because with all do respect, I don't think you speak for everyone (sorry if your not saying that, but that's how it comes across to me when you said "we"). Time doesn't mean anything without distance, and it can be taken anyway the reader chooses if read a certain way. Just thought math would help narrow down the search, and I did mention that me following the traffic laws and everything got me 11 hours from Iowa from tennese which I did past spring field on the way there at 4 1/2 hours, with some heavy traffic, and NOT taken short cuts and the long way around.

You need distance traveled total per time to work backwards to get a field of estimation to get a good area where the start point is. And I was using my info to suggest that either they live a relative Iowa to tennese state distance, or live 4 1/2 hour drive away state wise to get a estimated total of around nine hours give or take some minutes. And since we do have ONE of the points, the end point, might I suggest using either 9 hours to see which states take nine hours to leave to get to spring field, or half that and work from there?

[Obbl]

You... uh... you might want to re-read your post and Buster's post (while remembering that Buster was in disagreement about the time), cause you seem to be missing something

I daresay the intent is "nine hours up and nine hours back.

then why isn't it phrased that way? referring to two different legs of a journey collectively, as the page does, usually means 'this amount of time total' not 'this amount of time each'... hence the calculation error of the travel distance.

"Nine hours there and back" is ambiguous because it can be parsed as "Nine hours (there and back)" or "(Nine hours there) and back". In speech the second meaning can be easily made distinct, and we often just write what we hear in our head. Especially in a comic where everyone is speaking conversationally, and especially given the space restrictions of the medium. I grant that it's confusing, but asking "why isn't it phrased in a way that I could understand better?" is kind of an exercise in futility, no?

[Vertigo Fox]

Haha, Marion should feel free to come up to Winnipeg... we could use some squirrels more like him (her? him? her? him?). The ones we've got here are cartoonishly mean... to the point of overriding their self-preservation.

[D-Rock]

Haha, Marion should feel free to come up to Winnipeg... we could use some squirrels more like him (her? him? her? him?). The ones we've got here are cartoonishly mean... to the point of overriding their self-preservation.

Him.

[Amazee Dayzee]

I think Vertigo going back and forth about what pronoun to use for Marion was meant to be a joke.

[ZAR22]

You... uh... you might want to re-read your post and Buster's post (while remembering that Buster was in disagreement about the time), cause you seem to be missing something

No, I was responding to another of his texts that he used to respond to me earlier, and I was saying that to find a location you need distanced traveled, time (amount of time reasonable to get there) and atleast a start or end point to get a good understanding of where the other point can be within reason.

"Nine hours there and back" is ambiguous because it can be parsed as "Nine hours (there and back)" or "(Nine hours there) and back". In speech the second meaning can be easily made distinct, and we often just write what we hear in our head. Especially in a comic where everyone is speaking conversationally, and especially given the space restrictions of the medium. I grant that it's confusing, but asking "why isn't it phrased in a way that I could understand better?" is kind of an exercise in futility, no?

The second one, the "(Nine hours there) and back" wouldn't make sense, because saying "and back" without saying the exact time used to describe how long it is (unless comparing it to something that takes a short or longer time) and just saying it by itself is sort of nonsensical (IMO) and I fail to see why one would view it that way. Sure, if you view it as "in a way I can understand" but I don't believe this is is one of those instances. It seems to me a matter of either just 9 hours to Kansas, or 9 hours to and from kansas. Not really a hard question to answer, provided if we do get answers.

[Buster]

No, I was responding to another of his texts that he used to respond to me earlier, and I was saying that to find a location you need distanced traveled, time (amount of time reasonable to get there) and atleast a start or end point to get a good understanding of where the other point can be within reason.

which is off topic because everyone involved already knows that, it was never in debate. the original post had solely been about pointing out you seemed to be trying to calculate the travel time itself using outside information. which is pointless because we know the travel time to be 4.5 hours, we don't need to calculate it. we just need to re-map the search radius based on that, because the old map was based on 9 hours.

"Nine hours there and back" is ambiguous because it can be parsed as "Nine hours (there and back)" or "(Nine hours there) and back". In speech the second meaning can be easily made distinct, and we often just write what we hear in our head. Especially in a comic where everyone is speaking conversationally, and especially given the space restrictions of the medium. I grant that it's confusing, but asking "why isn't it phrased in a way that I could understand better?" is kind of an exercise in futility, no?

The second one, the "(Nine hours there) and back" wouldn't make sense, because saying "and back" without saying the exact time used to describe how long it is (unless comparing it to something that takes a short or longer time) and just saying it by itself is sort of nonsensical (IMO) and I fail to see why one would view it that way. Sure, if you view it as "in a way I can understand" but I don't believe this is is one of those instances. It seems to me a matter of either just 9 hours to Kansas, or 9 hours to and from kansas. Not really a hard question to answer, provided if we do get answers.

actually, the latter is typically written as "Nine hours there, and back" and implies both the trip there, and the trip back, are equal to nine hours, not that the first is nine and the second is some unknown quantity. it's pretty common in English for the second number to be dropped when describing two variables that have the same value. something that should be common knowledge to anyone who grew up with the language, so i'm kinda surprised that needed to be explained...

[Argent]

Hmmm. MORE COMPLICATION!

"Up and back" implies they're either from some place flatter or lower than Kansas, or south of Kansas. If they're in Michigan, say, it'd be "down and back".

[Buster]

not necessarily. i use that phrasing towards downtown halifax, despite it being both south of the part of Dartmouth i live in, and at a lower elevation.

besides we've already eliminated everything south of kansas as being too warm to match the climate seen in the comic.

[Vertigo Fox]

I think Vertigo going back and forth about what pronoun to use for Marion was meant to be a joke.

Partly but not completely. I don't think we can say for sure till we know how this story ends.

[Argent]

not necessarily. i use that phrasing towards downtown halifax, despite it being both south of the part of Dartmouth i live in, and at a lower elevation.

What about uptown Halifax? Is that up or down?

No really, there's something really broken about going "up to downtown".

AUGH.

[Vertigo Fox]

The english language is fairly broken in general...

[dr_eirik]

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse <Censored>. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll

[Amazee Dayzee]

When you put it like that, it makes me feel a bit bad for speaking English since the language itself sounds like a violent thug.

[Champion Wallace]

Am I understanding this correctly? ZAR22 shared an anecdote to say Tennese is about 9 hours away from Kansas, thus Argent's map accurately represents 9 hour radius of Kansas. Buster countered that that is irrelevant because Buster is only concerned with a 4.5 hour radius. ZAR22 took that as Buster was saying you can't map potential areas at all using time traveled instead of saying the Sandwiches spent a different amount of time traveling than what they actually did.

I think Vertigo going back and forth about what pronoun to use for Marion was meant to be a joke.

Partly but not completely. I don't think we can say for sure till we know how this story ends.

We don't have to wait for the story to end for this. It was canonized in Then What Was All That With Grape Eleven Years Ago Huh that the correct pronoun is "he".

[Buster]

Am I understanding this correctly? ZAR22 shared an anecdote to say Tennese is about 9 hours away from Kansas, thus Argent's map accurately represents 9 hour radius of Kansas. Buster countered that that is irrelevant because Buster is only concerned with a 4.5 hour radius. ZAR22 took that as Buster was saying you can't map potential areas at all using time traveled

Close, but you're starting in the middle. you missed the part at the beginning where it was pointed out that the way the line was phrased, it could be interpreted as a nine hour trip, or a nine hour roundtrip, and if it were the later it would make each leg 4.5 hours. we needed someone to map out what that 4.5 hour area is, but the tool used to make the 9-hour map was no longer available. then ZAR interjected with the anecdote which is irrelevant to wanting to map out the alternate time, and the rest proceeds mostly as you described.

[NHWestoN]

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse <Censored>. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll

"English are a funny language. First you chop a tree down, then you chop it up." -- attributed to a Swedish woodsman variously from Wisconsin, Michigan, or Iowa.

[Amazee Dayzee]

In addition to not know which state he came from, his grammar is appalling.

[Argent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHBcVlqpvZ8

[Vertigo Fox]

Am I understanding this correctly? ZAR22 shared an anecdote to say Tennese is about 9 hours away from Kansas, thus Argent's map accurately represents 9 hour radius of Kansas. Buster countered that that is irrelevant because Buster is only concerned with a 4.5 hour radius. ZAR22 took that as Buster was saying you can't map potential areas at all using time traveled instead of saying the Sandwiches spent a different amount of time traveling than what they actually did.

I think Vertigo going back and forth about what pronoun to use for Marion was meant to be a joke.

Partly but not completely. I don't think we can say for sure till we know how this story ends.

We don't have to wait for the story to end for this. It was canonized in Then What Was All That With Grape Eleven Years Ago Huh that the correct pronoun is "he".

Oh huh. Must have missed that line.

[Amazee Dayzee]

You now know so you can classify Marion appropriate when you talk about him.

[Champion Wallace]

Am I understanding this correctly? ZAR22 shared an anecdote to say Tennese is about 9 hours away from Kansas, thus Argent's map accurately represents 9 hour radius of Kansas. Buster countered that that is irrelevant because Buster is only concerned with a 4.5 hour radius. ZAR22 took that as Buster was saying you can't map potential areas at all using time traveled

Close, but you're starting in the middle. you missed the part at the beginning where it was pointed out that the way the line was phrased, it could be interpreted as a nine hour trip, or a nine hour roundtrip, and if it were the later it would make each leg 4.5 hours. we needed someone to map out what that 4.5 hour area is, but the tool used to make the 9-hour map was no longer available. then ZAR interjected with the anecdote which is irrelevant to wanting to map out the alternate time, and the rest proceeds mostly as you described.

Ah, thank you. I was missing the context that at that point in the discussion you were expecting someone to post on where to find the original map tool or one similar in function.