2019/11/25 - Thinking Out Loud

[VeryAngryDeer]

Transforming everyone to an animal in one fell swoop, if it were even possible, would truly give everyone an "equal chance."

I don't think so. You'd just go from humans being at the top of the food chain to former humans being all over the food chain. Some would have a better chance than others.

Keene seems to want to have legal and social equality with humans based on what humans are now. Dragging humans into the massively unequal Wild is the opposite of what he wants. He wants to fully take part in civilization, not force everyone into barbarism.

Basically it's like Thanos logic. It doesn't matter who or what you are in are before the snap and it becomes random. That said, think about it like this, would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not? If that is so, worse case then we are right back where we started. Logically that wouldn't work so we would have to deal with a new world order. Keene is correct in one regard. Laws would have to change almost instantly for the greater good allowing all therianthropes and animals the same rights as well as allowing those who wish to remain either feral or join the wild that opportunity not unlike a citizenship. There wouldn't be too much of an issue of predator and prey anymore than there is now. Taking the Beastars approach, predatory acts would be outlawed like general murder and food consumption would have to be more tightly regulated. As far as speciesism goes, I don't see that being too different from anything we have now. Both animals and humans have their own prejudices and while they will be altered and changed society as a whole would not vary as much. The biggest issue would be physical limitations but given how the animals in society work already they're wouldn't be too much changes only that new laws, regulations, and supplies would have to be mass produced to meet the new demands. It will take an adjustment period but I can't see it taking more than a decade for 1st world countries to adapt to the new norm. When you really think about it, how much would really change? The big will still pick on the weak, people will still get murdered, and hate will persist. The only difference will be who does what and everyone will be furry.

"would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not?"
It'd be difficult to 'verify' the identities of therianthropes for logistical reasons, but its by no means impossible. Demonstrate that you know the PIN number for your bank card, and the password for your email address, that'll be good enough for government work. The hard part would be that you've got to organise the verification of tens if not hundreds of millions of people, and that not everyone has a bank card or an email address.

Alternatively, people carry on their lives as normal, and animals that are not therianthropes wouldn't have the experience needed to fake being humans. A situation could develop where suspected animals are reported to the authorities, if we want to think about dystopian possibilities.

The differences between human races are minor, especially when compared to the differences between species. Racism tends to be based on assumptions projected onto others, or cultural stereotypes which the racist believes are inherent to a race. Species are dramatically different in instinctive behaviour and capabilities. Speciesism would have a much more solid foundation in evidence. It would still be morally wrong as far as I'm concerned, but I do think that would mean speciesism would be more common and have higher intensity than racism.


I think you're being very optimistic when you say that 1st world countries will be back to normal in a decade. Consider the effect that mass therianthropy will have on birthrate. You can only have children with other members of your species. Most people will be transformed into animals that are not compatible with their partner. Relationships will be destroyed. Plans for the future will never happen. The phrase "plenty more fish in the sea" will no longer apply, because if you want kids you've got to find someone that's the same species as you, and that's going to be a very small percentage of the population. Things may appear to go back to normal in ten years, but what will society look like in twenty? Thirty? Fifty? What happens when there aren't enough new people to do work and raise taxes? Sure, you could give animals equal rights and bring them into the workforce, but does a significant percentage of the animals even want to join civilisation? Most of the pets don't seem to care that they are second class citizens, or even enjoy the way they have plenty of privileges and few responsibilities. The Wolves and Gale both wanted to join civilisation, but the other ferals have apparently been rejecting the ECP. Top predators like wolves and cougars aren't the majority of animals, you'd struggle to keep population up just recruiting them. Just bringing them in doesn't guarantee anyone will want to breed with them. And what about inbreeding? Get lots of one species in one place and you're fine, but split them up into hundreds of species with a very limited choice of partners, and you'll see genetic issues within a couple of generations. Trying to save human civilisation by replacing the declining number of therianthropes will wild animals will also cause social issues, with people resentful at the idea.

But what about animals with high birthrates? Surely they could fix it? Possibly. But having children is expensive in the 1st world. Can they afford to have huge litters? Would they have to give up children for adoption simply because they can't look after them all? Knowing that this is what they would have to consider, would they even choose to have children at all? This also introduces the problem that some families will be producing most of the population, while others will be producing hardly any, which is far different to the current situation where most families have about two children. Expect more resentment.

In short, I would not be surprised if it caused the slow decline and eventual collapse of civilisation as we know it. To be fair, this could make an interesting premise for a story, but I don't think it fits the theme of Housepets.

[Startrekfan47]

Wonder if Rick is considering the reverse and have a character we've known for awhile and suddenly turn them human? What would say Bino, Dutchess, or Tiger be like as humans?

[Nobody]

Wonder if Rick is considering the reverse and have a character we've known for awhile and suddenly turn them human? What would say Bino, Dutchess, or Tiger be like as humans?

The worst sort of people imaginable?

[fenrirblack]

I think you're being very optimistic when you say that 1st world countries will be back to normal in a decade. Consider the effect that mass therianthropy will have on birthrate. You can only have children with other members of your species. Most people will be transformed into animals that are not compatible with their partner. Relationships will be destroyed. Plans for the future will never happen. The phrase "plenty more fish in the sea" will no longer apply, because if you want kids you've got to find someone that's the same species as you, and that's going to be a very small percentage of the population. Things may appear to go back to normal in ten years, but what will society look like in twenty? Thirty? Fifty? What happens when there aren't enough new people to do work and raise taxes? Sure, you could give animals equal rights and bring them into the workforce, but does a significant percentage of the animals even want to join civilisation? Most of the pets don't seem to care that they are second class citizens, or even enjoy the way they have plenty of privileges and few responsibilities. The Wolves and Gale both wanted to join civilisation, but the other ferals have apparently been rejecting the ECP. Top predators like wolves and cougars aren't the majority of animals, you'd struggle to keep population up just recruiting them. Just bringing them in doesn't guarantee anyone will want to breed with them. And what about inbreeding? Get lots of one species in one place and you're fine, but split them up into hundreds of species with a very limited choice of partners, and you'll see genetic issues within a couple of generations. Trying to save human civilisation by replacing the declining number of therianthropes will wild animals will also cause social issues, with people resentful at the idea.

But what about animals with high birthrates? Surely they could fix it? Possibly. But having children is expensive in the 1st world. Can they afford to have huge litters? Would they have to give up children for adoption simply because they can't look after them all? Knowing that this is what they would have to consider, would they even choose to have children at all? This also introduces the problem that some families will be producing most of the population, while others will be producing hardly any, which is far different to the current situation where most families have about two children. Expect more resentment.

In short, I would not be surprised if it caused the slow decline and eventual collapse of civilisation as we know it. To be fair, this could make an interesting premise for a story, but I don't think it fits the theme of Housepets.

Birthrates will decline but that would not be the worst thing. Resentment is going to happen no matter what because that's just comes with the territory of having your entire life turned inside out especially if you become an animal that you aren't satisfied with. It is an adaptive period where species will have to mate with others of a similar family group but it wouldn't be impossible to adjust and balance the birthrate so they increase or at least don't decrease to the point that civilization just collapses on itself. Humans, even as animals, have a stubborn tendency to survive and thrive. It won't be easy and will take longer than ten years but after a while things will settle and become a new norm where society functions. Honestly, if you want a kid that badly with a mate of a different species there are clinics for that. You have to be creative with this kind of stuff. I don't think birthrates would be too difficult to manage since from what we've seen they aren't bad with the pets and animals we have now. Having a litter of three might be hard to deal with comparably to one at a time but again bridges that would have to be crossed and dealt with.

Civilisation as we know it could collapse but that doesn't mean a new one can't be rebuilt.

[Robotech_Master]

"would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not?"
It'd be difficult to 'verify' the identities of therianthropes for logistical reasons, but its by no means impossible. Demonstrate that you know the PIN number for your bank card, and the password for your email address, that'll be good enough for government work. The hard part would be that you've got to organise the verification of tens if not hundreds of millions of people, and that not everyone has a bank card or an email address.

It's the Star-Bellied Sneetch problem, from that Doctor Seuss story I mentioned up-thread.

[VeryAngryDeer]

-snip-

Birthrates will decline but that would not be the worst thing. Resentment is going to happen no matter what because that's just comes with the territory of having your entire life turned inside out especially if you become an animal that you aren't satisfied with. It is an adaptive period where species will have to mate with others of a similar family group but it wouldn't be impossible to adjust and balance the birthrate so they increase or at least don't decrease to the point that civilization just collapses on itself. Humans, even as animals, have a stubborn tendency to survive and thrive. It won't be easy and will take longer than ten years but after a while things will settle and become a new norm where society functions. Honestly, if you want a kid that badly with a mate of a different species there are clinics for that. You have to be creative with this kind of stuff. I don't think birthrates would be too difficult to manage since from what we've seen they aren't bad with the pets and animals we have now. Having a litter of three might be hard to deal with comparably to one at a time but again bridges that would have to be crossed and dealt with.

Civilisation as we know it could collapse but that doesn't mean a new one can't be rebuilt.

Normally I'd agree with sub-replacement birthrates not being a bad thing. You may produce less GDP, but more living space to go around (lowering property prices) and less demand on existing infrastructure are positives. But we're not just talking fewer people having kids, here, we're talking about losing almost an entire generation of offspring. And not only will the birthrate be dramatically lower, but life expectancy will too - people will get too old to work or die of old age faster, meaning you need the replacement the most when you are least capable of doing it.

I did say "civilisation as we know it", not civilisation in general. The changes required just to compensate for species differences alone would dramatically change society. The changes required to ensure replacement level birthrate could be almost Orwellian in nature. People are used to being able to choose from a wide array of potential partners. In order to maintain the birthrate, they may have to be forced to have children with people they otherwise wouldn't want to. This would be a very different state of affairs. The pets and animals we have now don't get to choose who they have litters with, humans decide that.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that we have clinics that can just create hybrids of different species. In real life, hybrids only occur with closely related species, and are usually infertile.

Resentment builds up, and it has direction. Suddenly being turned into an animal is traumatic enough, but at least there's either no one to blame or you can put the blame on Keene. People will be resentful at their situation, but they will probably try to continue their lives. If the government steps in to try to control something as personal as who you have children with, or starts to mass-import literal animals to replace you, the resentment generated would be aimed squarely at the government. I would not be surprised if these would be large enough infringements that the result would be a revolution to attempt to preserve the status quo.

In conclusion though, my point was not that a mass therianthropy event would result in a Mad Max situation. It was that its by no means a quick way to reach to Keene's goal, and a lot of suffering and hardship will be caused in the meantime. The only people who would choose to implement such a plan are people who either haven't thought about it enough, or extremists so devoted to their goal that any amount of suffering is acceptable in the process of achieving it.

[Argent]

Something I just thought of and this is one of those theories that is so out there, that it could be legit: What if Keene is the one behind the transformations of Lois and Marion because, at one point, he was a human but something happened to make him a ferret?

Keene's backstory is pretty well documented, and we have met his late mother in a situation where mistaken identity is literally impossible.

[SeanWolf]

Something I just thought of and this is one of those theories that is so out there, that it could be legit: What if Keene is the one behind the transformations of Lois and Marion because, at one point, he was a human but something happened to make him a ferret?

Keene's backstory is pretty well documented, and we have met his late mother in a situation where mistaken identity is literally impossible.

Ah, I forgot about that. Still, as far as theories go, it's not too wild in the world of HP

[fenrirblack]

Normally I'd agree with sub-replacement birthrates not being a bad thing. You may produce less GDP, but more living space to go around (lowering property prices) and less demand on existing infrastructure are positives. But we're not just talking fewer people having kids, here, we're talking about losing almost an entire generation of offspring. And not only will the birthrate be dramatically lower, but life expectancy will too - people will get too old to work or die of old age faster, meaning you need the replacement the most when you are least capable of doing it.

I did say "civilisation as we know it", not civilisation in general. The changes required just to compensate for species differences alone would dramatically change society. The changes required to ensure replacement level birthrate could be almost Orwellian in nature. People are used to being able to choose from a wide array of potential partners. In order to maintain the birthrate, they may have to be forced to have children with people they otherwise wouldn't want to. This would be a very different state of affairs. The pets and animals we have now don't get to choose who they have litters with, humans decide that.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that we have clinics that can just create hybrids of different species. In real life, hybrids only occur with closely related species, and are usually infertile.

Resentment builds up, and it has direction. Suddenly being turned into an animal is traumatic enough, but at least there's either no one to blame or you can put the blame on Keene. People will be resentful at their situation, but they will probably try to continue their lives. If the government steps in to try to control something as personal as who you have children with, or starts to mass-import literal animals to replace you, the resentment generated would be aimed squarely at the government. I would not be surprised if these would be large enough infringements that the result would be a revolution to attempt to preserve the status quo.

In conclusion though, my point was not that a mass therianthropy event would result in a Mad Max situation. It was that its by no means a quick way to reach to Keene's goal, and a lot of suffering and hardship will be caused in the meantime. The only people who would choose to implement such a plan are people who either haven't thought about it enough, or extremists so devoted to their goal that any amount of suffering is acceptable in the process of achieving it.

I didn't mean create hybrids, I mean that people of certain species donate eggs and sperm and then others of those same species would get said material to have an offspring of their species while still married with one of a different species. It's not the most elegant system but it works in a pinch.

As much as I do enjoy the idea of extremest ideology and the prospect of saying "Screw it, lets do it and hope for the best" (Thanos snap), I am reasonable enough to know that something like this is not going to be solved easily or quickly. Even then it would take years to fully adapt to the changes but even then I believe that people can find creative solutions to solve any problems that arise from these changes without going to the worse case scenario especially when it comes to choosing mates. If something like this would come to pass there would have to be careful planning by people and animals to carefully plan and prepare for a massive change on this scale. That said, Keene is smart enough to hold off and try some "test" runs to see how this would work. A controlled experiment so to speak. Switching gears for a second, if there was a force causing this like a virus then there wouldn't be enough prep time and changes would have to be made quickly and whether or not people are happy about it is not the point.

Also If i did have the infinity guanlet, I can't make any promises that I wouldn't totally wouldn't do this and be like "This is probably going to kill me anyway so good luck."

[LunarFox]

Something I just thought of and this is one of those theories that is so out there, that it could be legit: What if Keene is the one behind the transformations of Lois and Marion because, at one point, he was a human but something happened to make him a ferret?

Keene's backstory is pretty well documented, and we have met his late mother in a situation where mistaken identity is literally impossible.

Ah, I forgot about that. Still, as far as theories go, it's not too wild in the world of HP

Hey, there's nothing saying that it can't be Lana...

[NHWestoN]

"would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not?"
It'd be difficult to 'verify' the identities of therianthropes for logistical reasons, but its by no means impossible. Demonstrate that you know the PIN number for your bank card, and the password for your email address, that'll be good enough for government work. The hard part would be that you've got to organise the verification of tens if not hundreds of millions of people, and that not everyone has a bank card or an email address.

It's the Star-Bellied Sneetch problem, from that Doctor Seuss story I mentioned up-thread.

There's apparently some way to intuit that an animals was formerly human - Tarot identified King as a former human during the party where he flirted with her and Daisy. How she did that, dunno...

[Robotech_Master]

There's apparently some way to intuit that an animals was formerly human - Tarot identified King as a former human during the party where he flirted with her and Daisy. How she did that, dunno...

Well, she is psychic. Not to mention, King's counterpart in the game from the opposite side. Either of those might be sufficient to explain why she knows just who King is and was.

[NHWestoN]

There's apparently some way to intuit that an animals was formerly human - Tarot identified King as a former human during the party where he flirted with her and Daisy. How she did that, dunno...

Well, she is psychic. Not to mention, King's counterpart in the game from the opposite side. Either of those might be sufficient to explain why she knows just who King is and was.

So discernment is possible - the rub is to figure out how to do outside of invoking cosmic powers.

Sigh ....... Nothing is ever simple anymore.

[VeryAngryDeer]

Normally I'd agree with sub-replacement birthrates not being a bad thing. You may produce less GDP, but more living space to go around (lowering property prices) and less demand on existing infrastructure are positives. But we're not just talking fewer people having kids, here, we're talking about losing almost an entire generation of offspring. And not only will the birthrate be dramatically lower, but life expectancy will too - people will get too old to work or die of old age faster, meaning you need the replacement the most when you are least capable of doing it.

I did say "civilisation as we know it", not civilisation in general. The changes required just to compensate for species differences alone would dramatically change society. The changes required to ensure replacement level birthrate could be almost Orwellian in nature. People are used to being able to choose from a wide array of potential partners. In order to maintain the birthrate, they may have to be forced to have children with people they otherwise wouldn't want to. This would be a very different state of affairs. The pets and animals we have now don't get to choose who they have litters with, humans decide that.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that we have clinics that can just create hybrids of different species. In real life, hybrids only occur with closely related species, and are usually infertile.

Resentment builds up, and it has direction. Suddenly being turned into an animal is traumatic enough, but at least there's either no one to blame or you can put the blame on Keene. People will be resentful at their situation, but they will probably try to continue their lives. If the government steps in to try to control something as personal as who you have children with, or starts to mass-import literal animals to replace you, the resentment generated would be aimed squarely at the government. I would not be surprised if these would be large enough infringements that the result would be a revolution to attempt to preserve the status quo.

In conclusion though, my point was not that a mass therianthropy event would result in a Mad Max situation. It was that its by no means a quick way to reach to Keene's goal, and a lot of suffering and hardship will be caused in the meantime. The only people who would choose to implement such a plan are people who either haven't thought about it enough, or extremists so devoted to their goal that any amount of suffering is acceptable in the process of achieving it.

I didn't mean create hybrids, I mean that people of certain species donate eggs and sperm and then others of those same species would get said material to have an offspring of their species while still married with one of a different species. It's not the most elegant system but it works in a pinch.

As much as I do enjoy the idea of extremest ideology and the prospect of saying "Screw it, lets do it and hope for the best" (Thanos snap), I am reasonable enough to know that something like this is not going to be solved easily or quickly. Even then it would take years to fully adapt to the changes but even then I believe that people can find creative solutions to solve any problems that arise from these changes without going to the worse case scenario especially when it comes to choosing mates. If something like this would come to pass there would have to be careful planning by people and animals to carefully plan and prepare for a massive change on this scale. That said, Keene is smart enough to hold off and try some "test" runs to see how this would work. A controlled experiment so to speak. Switching gears for a second, if there was a force causing this like a virus then there wouldn't be enough prep time and changes would have to be made quickly and whether or not people are happy about it is not the point.

Also If i did have the infinity guanlet, I can't make any promises that I wouldn't totally wouldn't do this and be like "This is probably going to kill me anyway so good luck."

... I forgot surrogacy and IVF treatment exist. Derp.

Creative solutions are possible... but then, why not just come up with creative solutions to the current problem instead of skipping straight to the most extreme option that creates a bunch of new problems you have to solve?

Getting animals legal and social equality is going to be a long war either way, so why go for the version that causes unneccesary issues?

[fenrirblack]

Normally I'd agree with sub-replacement birthrates not being a bad thing. You may produce less GDP, but more living space to go around (lowering property prices) and less demand on existing infrastructure are positives. But we're not just talking fewer people having kids, here, we're talking about losing almost an entire generation of offspring. And not only will the birthrate be dramatically lower, but life expectancy will too - people will get too old to work or die of old age faster, meaning you need the replacement the most when you are least capable of doing it.

I did say "civilisation as we know it", not civilisation in general. The changes required just to compensate for species differences alone would dramatically change society. The changes required to ensure replacement level birthrate could be almost Orwellian in nature. People are used to being able to choose from a wide array of potential partners. In order to maintain the birthrate, they may have to be forced to have children with people they otherwise wouldn't want to. This would be a very different state of affairs. The pets and animals we have now don't get to choose who they have litters with, humans decide that.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that we have clinics that can just create hybrids of different species. In real life, hybrids only occur with closely related species, and are usually infertile.

Resentment builds up, and it has direction. Suddenly being turned into an animal is traumatic enough, but at least there's either no one to blame or you can put the blame on Keene. People will be resentful at their situation, but they will probably try to continue their lives. If the government steps in to try to control something as personal as who you have children with, or starts to mass-import literal animals to replace you, the resentment generated would be aimed squarely at the government. I would not be surprised if these would be large enough infringements that the result would be a revolution to attempt to preserve the status quo.

In conclusion though, my point was not that a mass therianthropy event would result in a Mad Max situation. It was that its by no means a quick way to reach to Keene's goal, and a lot of suffering and hardship will be caused in the meantime. The only people who would choose to implement such a plan are people who either haven't thought about it enough, or extremists so devoted to their goal that any amount of suffering is acceptable in the process of achieving it.

I didn't mean create hybrids, I mean that people of certain species donate eggs and sperm and then others of those same species would get said material to have an offspring of their species while still married with one of a different species. It's not the most elegant system but it works in a pinch.

As much as I do enjoy the idea of extremest ideology and the prospect of saying "Screw it, lets do it and hope for the best" (Thanos snap), I am reasonable enough to know that something like this is not going to be solved easily or quickly. Even then it would take years to fully adapt to the changes but even then I believe that people can find creative solutions to solve any problems that arise from these changes without going to the worse case scenario especially when it comes to choosing mates. If something like this would come to pass there would have to be careful planning by people and animals to carefully plan and prepare for a massive change on this scale. That said, Keene is smart enough to hold off and try some "test" runs to see how this would work. A controlled experiment so to speak. Switching gears for a second, if there was a force causing this like a virus then there wouldn't be enough prep time and changes would have to be made quickly and whether or not people are happy about it is not the point.

Also If i did have the infinity guanlet, I can't make any promises that I wouldn't totally wouldn't do this and be like "This is probably going to kill me anyway so good luck."

... I forgot surrogacy and IVF treatment exist. Derp.

Creative solutions are possible... but then, why not just come up with creative solutions to the current problem instead of skipping straight to the most extreme option that creates a bunch of new problems you have to solve?

Getting animals legal and social equality is going to be a long war either way, so why go for the version that causes unneccesary issues?

For me personally, I would do it because I'm an agent of chaos and a huge furry. No one can stop me. Not even a deadly glare from Lois. I am inevitable.
As for why someone else would do it, i would go with a combination desperation and short-sightedness.

[Nobody]

For me personally, I would do it because I'm an agent of chaos and a huge furry. No one can stop me. Not even a deadly glare from Lois. I am inevitable.

And I . . .
Am Iron Snake.

[Champion Wallace]

As a rule of thumb, Keene, those who use the phrase "new world order" don't often end up on the right side of history.

if everyone was turned into an animal... now you have to deal with all the prejudices and discrimination and obligate carnivores that comes with everyone being various types of animal.

Keene was trying to change both social and physical laws. There's no need to Bojack Horseman when you have magic to make carnivores get all their sustenance from plants.

There's apparently some way to intuit that an animals was formerly human - Tarot identified King as a former human during the party where he flirted with her and Daisy. How she did that, dunno...

Well, she is psychic. Not to mention, King's counterpart in the game from the opposite side. Either of those might be sufficient to explain why she knows just who King is and was.

So discernment is possible - the rub is to figure out how to do outside of invoking cosmic powers.

Sigh ....... Nothing is ever simple anymore.

You're forgetting we already live in a world with a plethora of personally identifiable information (and I'm not just talking about technological stuff like email passwords). There are drivers licenses, social security numbers, passports, birth certificates, etc. Our world is prepared for the need of everyone proving who they are because that is already a thing when you get a job or open a back account or whatever. There might be a greater rate of identity theft at first because the photo part of photo ID is invalid, but that is just one part. If people want to discriminate they can require licenses to shop and whatnot. If not, then well, that solves that (best not get too hopeful though, these are humans we're talking about). There is still the affirmative action aspect. Even if former species isn't considered on applications, having at least a kindergarden education might be.

I'm not saying this theory-crafting isn't fun, but I'd like to iterate that we all agree for reasons why its a bad idea and information about his character, at no point was Keene seriously trying to turn all humans into animals.

[VeryAngryDeer]

As a rule of thumb, Keene, those who use the phrase "new world order" don't often end up on the right side of history.

if everyone was turned into an animal... now you have to deal with all the prejudices and discrimination and obligate carnivores that comes with everyone being various types of animal.

Keene was trying to change both social and physical laws. There's no need to Bojack Horseman when you have magic to make carnivores get all their sustenance from plants.

That's when he had access to a huge supply of Mana. I've been talking about the Plan B "use the coin to somehow transform everyone into animals". The coins only transform people, they cannae change the laws of physics, Jim.

I'm not saying this theory-crafting isn't fun, but I'd like to iterate that we all agree for reasons why its a bad idea and information about his character, at no point was Keene seriously trying to turn all humans into animals.

Indeed, which is why I noted earlier that it didn't fit with Keene's established goals to try to turn all humans into animals. Its the wrong way round to get what he wants.

[Argent]

“Everyone complains about the laws of physics, but no one does anything about them.”—Greg Egan, Schild’s Ladder

[Amazee Dayzee]

I'm surprised that people think that they actually can do anything about those laws other than complain about them.

[NHWestoN]

I'm surprised that people think that they actually can do anything about those laws other than complain about them.

That's why we need term limits !!!

[Argent]

I'm surprised that people think that they actually can do anything about those laws other than complain about them.

You need to read Schild's Ladder then.

[Amazee Dayzee]

All of this talking about how it is possible to do it and make a change about it IS making me wanna see if I can read a copy of the book online because you know, no money. LOL

[OdedZeituni98]

Lois in the first panel looks cute when she smiles while holding the cookie

[Ninkurou]

Everyone is talking about how civilization would rebuilt itself... Claiming that it will be back to the way that it was... But that is only taking in consideration the developed worlds in recent history.

Humans had done all kinds of horrors to others humans in all of the history, today we are in the most peacefull time in history.
In the medieval times, you had 3/5 of chance or more of dying to another human being. In truth if you managed to get past 20 years old you were expected to live until 80 years, because the majority died before that. And in ancient times it was worse, civilizations did war and the losers suffered genocide. Today a bit less than 3% of deaths in the entire world combined are due to war and violence, its a huge improvement.

But alas, we still have ditactorships, and persons arround the world who kill humans for fun. Amd this will not be corrected with humans becaming beastmens.

[Amazee Dayzee]

Naturally if everybody in the world gets turned into an animal and there are no more humans at all things will get worse and there will be more deaths. I wonder if Keene has ever thought about that?

[Vertigo Fox]

I'm not sure that's something that would factor into his thought process in that way... as a carnivore prey death is a concept he must be innately comfortable with on at least some level.

[Amazee Dayzee]

But I would wonder if he would feel comfortable with that on a global scale or carnivores killing non-prey animals.