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Discussion: Video Games 
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Buster Wrote:
SeanWolf Wrote:
I can get into a full discussion why I consider BOTW the worst Zelda game I ever played

does it involve the game giving you 90% of your weapons and items in the intro area? replacing the dozens of varied and unique enemies and monsters of previous games with pallet swaps and minor variations of the same eight enemies over and over? making all of your weapons hit like foam swords and break like glass? cause even with those combined, pretty sure i could make solid arguments for the CDI trilogy and the bad remakes being worse.

That and the fact I hate how open it is (Sure the other games were somewhat open-world, but at least you still knew where to go), that [censored] stamina bar and how restrictive it is, how it feels less like Zelda and more like Dark Souls (I don't mind Dark Souls but it just doesn't fit within a Zelda Game), the inclusion of voice acting *shudders*...I could go on forever.

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Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
okay the stamina thing i agree with, It's an absurd hindrance until you start getting close to a full 3 rings, but I never once found myself not knowing where i wanted to head next, so that 'lost' comment doesn't really make sense to me, i fail to see the connection to darksouls considering that series defining traits are it's foreboding atmosphere and difficulty curve from hell, neither of which this has, and how is the characters being chatty in verbal form any better or worse than being chatty in text-dump form? they've talked that much since zelda II.

also still not seeing anything the CDI trilogy didn't do one worse than.

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Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
For me, getting lost was kinda my goal in BOTW, since god knows I wasn’t taking on Ganon until I explored every nook and cranny of Hyrule, and enough weapons and skills to fight my way through the Yiga Hideout (since I SUCK at the stealth in that game). There is, however, once exception to that. The Typhlo Ruins and their associated shrine. As someone who is afraid of the dark, that area stresses me out to no end, and the fact that I kept getting lost only made it worse. There’s a reason I always avoid it whenever I start a new playthrough.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:08 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
To be honest, I would have loved a first-person option like the other 3D Zelda games I played had. Frankly, I would have loved to admire some of the locations. Also would have appreciated one of these two things; automatically cycling to the next weapon should your current one break instead of going into the menu, or an unarmed combat thing until you do. It doesn't have to be strong, just something.

I enjoyed my time with the game, though like with Skyrim, it felt like there was too much to do. I don't mind the voice acting at all. Frankly, surprised Twilight Princess didn't have that, considering that they took the time to animate mouth movements.

I agree on the stamina bar thing, but there were always plenty to do about it, either upping it throught the spirit orbs or cooking.

Side note, loved experimenting with cooking, and it was kinda fun, especially with how Link was with it. Though I learned that among the most efficient thing to do with cooking for health is to take a ton of an item like meat and apples and just roast them in fire. They stack in your inventory like that.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:34 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I actually enjoyed a lot of BOTW more annoying aspects like the weapon's system. It was actually cool to break a weapon and then pick up something off the ground to continue wailing on the next enemy. It gave it a bit of edge to the gameplay and raised the stakes. Just having a single sword gets old after a while. The stamina bar is annoying but understandable when you think about it. Without it you could just keep climbing mountains and cliffs without consequences so where's the fun there? It's like a necessary evil considering what you can actually do gameplay wise. I don't understand why anyone would complain about the voice acting unless you are just die hard old Zelda fans and hate change.

The huge open world aspect was its greatest aspect both but also its greatest hinderance. It was so large that it took away from the dungeons which I do agree were lacking to the point that they don't even qualify (which is another reason why Twilight is my favorite, large world with unique exciting dungeons). The shrines do not cut it. They were fun to find up to the point they became for stressful and some of them were just annoying like that one in the desert that that woman was collapsed in front of. But then there were the ones in the giants mazes which were just awesome. The mazes themselves kinda sucked but still added a bit of excitement and made the game more interesting. Then there places like the Typhlo ruins which I did enjoy despite the difficulty. That and Eventide island made the gameplay fun because despite not being actual dungeons they mixed the gameplay up and really brought home the aspect of that you are wandering the wilderness. Like I said the giant open world was fun to explore to find all the nooks like hidden ice caves with giant skeletons but because of it the dungeons had to be sacrificed which hurt deeply.

If Nintendo were to make their next Zelda game in similar fashion ( and you they will make another) I do hope that they cut the shrines and really go back to the dungeon format and utilize like it was said before places like Akkala Citadel or my personal favorite the Lanayru Promenade. Those places were such interesting concepts but not developed because Hyrule is in this post-apocalyptic state and everything is in ruins which is again the point of the game. The best thing they could do is let you explore Hyrule and put the dungeons in these special places and actually have a real story. The champions storylines were so underdeveloped even with the Champions Ballad. The fact that they were dead already just like a stab through the heart because they were such fun and dynamic characters.

But still it is so cool to see something in the distance and going to check it out. It really feels like a real adventure with real stakes. I think that is one of the reasons I do like the weapons system because it adds a little more realism to the game if some monsters are harder to beat. The weapons breaking is sometimes annoying but it frees up the space for new ones. Except when it comes to the amiibo weapons that are irreplaceable and you have to keep in your house. It's not even hard to switch weapons, you press one button and pick something.

The cooking thing was dumb. One hearty anything and you get full hearts so who cares about mixing different ingredients.

Then there is the best aspect of the game which of course is the Lynel Hunting. I do love Lynel Hunting.

SO much was sacrificed to have so much crammed into Hyrule but because of that I think the next one will be ten times better because Nintendo can focus more on the substance rather than the landscape because the landscape is already done. When you look out at the scenery it truly is awe-inspiring to see everything spread out before you. It is because of that Nintendo actually has a lot to work with. They can pick out these places and actually show what they were like years before. The same map but in a different time period just to see how dramatic the changes would be.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:00 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
One more thing that kinda disappoints me about BOTW is the post game. It literally just plops you right back before the final boss with only or two new things to do. I would’ve loved it if after you beat Ganon, the Guardians were pacified due to his influence no longer controlling them, and instead they’re sorta ally’s in your new mission, which would be to kill every last monster in Hyrule, now that the Blood Moon can’t bring them back.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Don't most Zelda games do that? Only exceptions I can think of are the Oracle games, and that's assuming you weren't playing a linked game.

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:16 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Legotron123 Wrote:
One more thing that kinda disappoints me about BOTW is the post game. It literally just plops you right back before the final boss with only or two new things to do. I would’ve loved it if after you beat Ganon, the Guardians were pacified due to his influence no longer controlling them, and instead they’re sorta ally’s in your new mission, which would be to kill every last monster in Hyrule, now that the Blood Moon can’t bring them back.

There are so many problems with that idea. But it is annoying that the “defeat Ganon” mission is always going to be on your list as incomplete they should have at least taken that away. As far as post game we did get the DLC.

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:24 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
fenrirblack Wrote:
Legotron123 Wrote:
One more thing that kinda disappoints me about BOTW is the post game. It literally just plops you right back before the final boss with only or two new things to do. I would’ve loved it if after you beat Ganon, the Guardians were pacified due to his influence no longer controlling them, and instead they’re sorta ally’s in your new mission, which would be to kill every last monster in Hyrule, now that the Blood Moon can’t bring them back.

There are so many problems with that idea. But it is annoying that the “defeat Ganon” mission is always going to be on your list as incomplete they should have at least taken that away. As far as post game we did get the DLC.

It’s not perfect, but I think we should’ve gotten some sort of real post game, instead of just “Hey, go kill every one of the mini bosses and the creepy mask guy will give you a pin or something.” Also, the DLC actually takes place before you beat Ganon, since when you beat Maz Koshia (best boss ever), Zelda says “with the power you have obtained, I am certain you can beat Calamity Ganon.”

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Any game that you can ride a motorcycle, hit a fence, get thrown off a cliff, fall for a few seconds, then safely glide down to the shore below is awesome.

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I would like my games to at least have them land on their faces and be somewhat injured though. XD When I was younger, I was quite a psycho as I loved to throw characters off cliffs and other high objects. LOL

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:29 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
fenrirblack Wrote:
Any game that you can ride a motorcycle, hit a fence, get thrown off a cliff, fall for a few seconds, then safely glide down to the shore below is awesome.

Oh god yes. I think the youtuber Super Butter Buns put it best. “The only limits you have in this game are the physics and Link’s bones, and both can be bent like a rubber ruler.”

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:08 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I'm now starting to get images of Link being bent like rubber and its NOT pretty. :|

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Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:58 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
the problem i had with the stamina system wasn't it's presence, it was the rate it depletes at. Link basically had less stamina than me, except i'm an overweight office worker, and he's a career soldier who's in excellent shape judging by how easily he can swing around what has to be a 20 or 30kg sledge hammer (the hammer head is huge and appears to be either cast iron or wrought iron from it's color texture and magnetic properties).

it starts stupidly low, maxes out at what feels like a reasonable starting point, and to get to what feels like where link's maximum potential *should* be you have to basically become an elixir addict.

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Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:36 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Don't worry. I'm sure after all this mission where it is present that there is an EA group Link can join. XD

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Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:50 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Well you can look at the stamina gauge one of two ways, one being unrealistic and the other being a game of strategy where as you are climbing a mountain you have to coordinate you movements so to find a foothold or ledge to rest on. It adds to the excitement.

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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
the most important part of any interactive experience, game or otherwise, in my eyes is immersion.

the game making me go "Wait a minute, I can do that. he can't? What the ____?" kinda breaks that.

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Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Yeah, admittedly, the rate the thing falls is kinda irritating. Definitely stocked up on stamina food. Same with hearts.

I think I could run more than Link could in this game at the start. And I do miss heart containers, or something similar for the stamina wheel. I get that getting four spirit orbs to get the upgrade is sort of to feel the same and the shrines are the exploration part, but you're still required to go to a goddess shrine to receive the upgrade.

I do like the other things added, though, like armor effects.

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:05 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
the great fairies being the most disturbing incarnation yet aside, the armor system was pretty neat, and had a nice range of useful perks.

though the climbing would probably be less frustrating early on if there was a Hook rune.

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:24 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I think my running capacity might be about the same as Link's at the start of the game. I don't know I haven't ran for as long as I could. I tend to fall. Link never falls on flat ground.

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:32 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I thought the Great Fairies were fine. Majora's Mask/Ocarina of Time still kinda trip me out. Though the GFs method of enhancing your armor did get pretty, well, boundary breaking.

I think I recall an interview where the Hookshot was considered to make a return early in the concept stage, but dropped to emphasize stamina regulation. They could have at least made it an end-game reward or something. Revali's Gale seems to be the most we'll get regarding that.

Also would have liked Iron Boots and underwater breathing with the Zora Armor. With how huge some of the bodies of water are, could have been neat exploring. Heck, even in OoT I liked to walk around Lake Hylia, and there was essentially nothing there worth seeing outside of the Water Temple!

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:03 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
So noticed the conversation seems to be on Zelda, but I need to know as it’s ruining the online aspect for me, is anyone else who does one on one games really annoyed by how many times they only encounter fire emblem characters in smash?

... I do want to ask, do you think Nintendo will make a BotW 2, go back to the original setup, or start doing both with future Zelda titles?

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:36 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
there was already talk of a follow up to BOTW in the works when Balad released, so probably that

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:02 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
While we’re on the subject, what would you guys want out of a BOTW 2? I’d like a game set a few hundred years later, when the races of Hyrule have finished rebuilding and have started expanding their territories a little. Like, maybe there’s a new Gerudo town up on Laparoh Mesa, or maybe the Rito have a settlement down by Gisa Crater. I’d also like a non-Ganon villain, like in MM or ST, or like TP until he came back and hijacked the plot. For the climax the new villain would bring back the Blood Moon to revive all of Ganon’s mini bosses from the first game, and whatever ones you don’t kill before beating the new villain would still be around in the post game, terrorizing people until you beat them.

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:54 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I think (and hope) that the next zelda game will follow the Link Between Worlds style then follow that up with the BoTW sequel. It's like mario. I love odyssey and want more of that but I need 2D New Super Mario Bros. Games as well. Right now all I really want is Wind Waker and Twilight on the Switch. Preferably in a combo pack.

I would like it set a few hundred or so years before BOTW. I mentioned this before about how I would like to see more emphasis on the ruins and what they were like before hand. I like how it is like some combination of all the timelines. I also would not mind if they went somewhere outside of Hyrule. One thing about BoTW you can actually see beyond the kingdom despite the abyss separating them but the fact that there actually is something out there is worth investigating. We've done it before but it's always been a catch. Termina wasn't real, it was a fantasy created by Skull Kid. Loholint Island, dream. World of the Ocean King, parallel world. Holodrum and Labynna, trial worlds. Twilight realm exists behind Hyrule, The Dark world was the sacred realm corrupted by Ganon, Lorule is a parallel inverse world that exists under Hyrule. Hytopia, who cares Triforce Heroes was awful. New Hyrule, we'll never see that again and after Spirit Tracks maybe that's a good thing.

What I desperately hope they do not do is change the characters. The Zora have been changed so many times and I think they finally nailed them, and so help me if they do anything to the Ruto I will flip out. The dragons too are perfect as is. I like how they fly around and you shoot them with arrows to get parts. I honestly would like them to expand on the dragons and get a little more depth with them.

Anyway, beyond that I want another transformation aspect. BoTW had a lot of potential to follow up with Twilight's Wolf link but expand that to other creatures or animals like in Majora and have their use vary depending on the environment. Link becomes a rabbit in Link to the Past but it didn't amount to anything. He's been able to shrink, become a painting, transform into the different races (now he needs to become a Ruto) and been split into four copies of himself. If they wanted to mix it up, have Link change into different monsters. I'm reading about the different kinds and there are some that would be interesting to see.

I would like to see a game without Ganon as the final boss and not like Link Between World where it wasn't Ganon but still Ganon at the same time. But a better boss than Bellum or Malladus.

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:27 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
One thing that is almost guaranteed is that art styles will always be different over time. Heck, the Zoras started as irritating enemies, then there was a species split. Octoroks got weird in Majora's Mask, I recall transformation rings in the Oracle games, but they were pointless, as you couldn't use items or attack. Even when you use the 8-Bit Link ring! Also, don't recall Termina being a fantasy of the Skull Kid. Did I miss that somewhere?
I remember a developer interview that stated that a game where you play as Zelda was briefly considered, but it would probably take place during the events of Ocarina. Idea has obviously never been picked up again. That could be cool, though. And hopefully they could be better than the two that currently exist that most would rather didn't.

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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
well, for alternate bosses they could always bring back Vaati. aside from a working together on one ocasion, he's not actually connected to Gannon and is a force to be reckoned with all on his own. also he's only been in 3 games (minish cap, foursword, and foursword adventures), so not enough to wear out his welcome.

though there is the fan theory that like gannon he's a child of demise. not sure if that's a good or bad thing...

also on the subject of fan theories, anyone else think Linkle might be a in some way connected to spirit tracks link? I mean she insists the compass she inherited is magical, and it actually does do some wierd things, and while all of the links save botw link have found compasses somewhere or another ST Link is the only one who actually found one with explicitly stated magical properties.

and we already know the dark world, twilight realm, and ocean king's realm are all basically the same place; a distorted reflection of hyrule in a mirror world, when gannon conquered all the twilight realm became the darkworld, when hyrule sank, so did it. and with the cycle being broken in that timeline The Heroes of Wind and Rail aren't true incarnations of The Hero like the others, but are still both heroes in their own right. why can't other elements have paralells?

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Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:21 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Here's some info from the Zelda Encyclopedia

Twilight Realm: The Twilight Realm was where the Light Spirits banished usurpers from Hyrule after they attempted to control the Triforce by using the Mirror of Twilight. According to this, the Twilight Realm is thought to be Hyrule's shadow.
The Dark Realm was the scared realm corrupted by Ganon's darkness.
The World of the Ocean King: The waters beyond Hyrule are the domain of the great spirit known as the ocean king. It is a parallel world that the hero Link wanders into during Phantom Hourglass. The Great Sea is connected to the neighboring world of he Ocean King by water.
Here's what it says about Termina:
When Skull Kid steals Majora's Mask from a traveling salesman, the combination of the Skull Kid's burdened heart and the evil magic within Majora's Mask transforms the world into the land of Termina. This land is also inhabited by races and individuals similar to those found in Hyrule, which were constructed from the Skull Kid's memories and delusions.
The four giants were spirit friends of the Skull Kid who, much like Termina itself, were created in new form by the power of Majora's Mask.
As the legend continues, the giants are sealed away, and Termina is fated to de destroyed by the swiftly falling moon. Lucking, the Hero of time appears to defeat Majora's wicked embodiment. While the hero's pure heart allows the world of Termina to momentarily revel in its salvation, as soon as he departs, that world ceases to exist. Having learned his lesson, the Skull Kid makes amends with the giants, and thus the world in his heart also finds peace.

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Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:33 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Wow. That somehow kills a lot of the fascination with Termina I held. :| Canon kinda sucks sometimes, doesn't it?

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Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:27 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I read that about Termina and was like "I did all that work, for nothing. It was so hard and it didn't even matter."

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Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:46 am
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I was holding to the theory that Termina was of Link's mind before he died, with him saving it his method of finally moving on.

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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Eh, I think Nintendo themselves don’t get the Zelda timeline themselves sometimes. Keep in mind these are the guys who thought the Zora would turn into birds over time, and these aren’t even the freshwater variety that were shown, considering BotW was smart and just made them entirely separate species, I’m guessing the moment they have enough new games to establish an even bigger timeline, they may change that as overtime, MM has gotten as if not even more popular than OoT

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Except that link lived long enough to be at least six foot when he died given what he looks like when he trains wolf link as an undead, which debunks the dead termainia theory completely.

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Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Gameb18oy Wrote:
Eh, I think Nintendo themselves don’t get the Zelda timeline themselves sometimes. Keep in mind these are the guys who thought the Zora would turn into birds over time, and these aren’t even the freshwater variety that were shown, considering BotW was smart and just made them entirely separate species, I’m guessing the moment they have enough new games to establish an even bigger timeline, they may change that as overtime, MM has gotten as if not even more popular than OoT

Nintendo screwed themselves when they decided to just pull games out of thin air without considering how they work with one another. Given it was a different time period but still they should have thought about the progression of the series. Even with the timeline, which they've repeatedly said was just for the fans and not to think about it too hard, they put BotW at the bottom as a type of convergence of all three which makes since if you want to think about it hard enough. I wish they would take it more seriously than they do.

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Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:16 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I thought it was stated that BotW wasn't in any place in the timelines.

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Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:31 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
D-Rock Wrote:
I thought it was stated that BotW wasn't in any place in the timelines.

According to the interview it takes place after all the others but isn’t apart of any of the timelines. So yes?

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Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:15 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I guess its not part of the timelines since it takes place after all of them. That is kind of confusing though.

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Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Maybe it takes place last in the timeline but if the split never happened. :P Alternate future, perhaps?

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Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
D-Rock Wrote:
Maybe it takes place last in the timeline but if the split never happened. :P Alternate future, perhaps?

To me, the Zelda time-line is as confusing as the Metal Gear time-line.

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Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I imagine BoTW as this bubble that just exists at the bottom of the timeline. It's just there.

I still see it as no matter what occurred in each timeline, they all lead to BoTW. The Windwaker timeline for instance, the ocean that flooded Hyrule disappeared and it was resettled by travelers from another country since we know that Hyrule technically is connected to the rest of the continent. The Twilight timeline and the Link to the Past timeline, both just follow the same progression where Hyrule evolves into what it is during BoTW through their own individual circumstances and choices. It's basically saying that the future was set in stone. No matter what anyone did in any timeline, they would eventually unearth the guardians and try to fight calamity Ganon.

It was a lame move on Aonuma's part but at the same time it does fix the fact that the timelines separate so if a game were to take place after BOTW then we wouldn't have to choice which out of the three it would go on.

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